Mispunched center-holes, striking error?

[Maxorin]

I`ve just read through the Error/Variety Checklist and noticed that the category "mispunched center-holes", is placed under Striking Errors.

Can anyone elaborate this a little? It seems odd to me, here in norway we have many coins with hole-errors, and I`ve always thougt of these as Planchet Errors. I thougt the hole was made after the upset-mill but before striking. Wouldn`t the hole shrink/loose its shape when the planchets are struck?

Furthermore, is it right that these holes are punched out? I do belive they are drilled out, because I have some coins with a partial hole, were you can clearly see it has been drilled.

Another thing that caught my eye, is that Die Deterioation Doubling, is placed under both Die Errors and Striking Errors.

Information on this is greatly appreciated.



By the way, just recived the new error coin encycklopedia in the mail now, great book!

[Maxorin]

I see I wrote it a little confusing,

what I mean is: I have always thougt that the hole is made after the upset-mill but before striking. But when I think of it, it seems like the holes would shrink/loose their shapes when the planchets are struck..

[diamond]

It's quite possible that there are "filing errors" in my checklist. I'll check into it. With the center hole, I believe it is punched out after the strike, since you can find perfectly round, off-center holes in coins that have the design perfectly centered. Also, you can find coins with a solid circle with a raised margin on struck coins. These were supposed to have a hole punched within the circle.

Die deterioration doubling (and die deterioration in general) should certainly not be classified as a striking error. In ordinary die deterioration, it's debateable whether it should even be classified as a die error. Deterioration is normal. The error comes in when the die fails to be replaced in a timely fashion. I wonder if we should set up a "sloppy maintenance" category? :)

There is a subset of die deterioration errors that do owe their existence and appearance to a defect in die steel or die preparation (annealing, quenching, tempering, etc.). These coins show exaggerated, premature, and often localized distortion of the die face which is quite different from ordinary deterioration.

[Maxorin]

Yes it makes sense that they are punched out after strike. I have a collection of coins with off-senter and unpunched holes and planchet "clips".
One thing that made me wonder about the punching of the hole, was that i noticed a few with a unpunched hole, but with a small beggining of a hole in the middle. It looks like whatever it was, it was rotating, shaving out the metal, like a drill. I guess that an incomlete punching of the hole, would result in a dent in the coin.


Anyway, it`s not critical :) just something I would like to get to the bottom of. I guess it also can be the first contact mark of the thing that punches out the hole, that it is pointed, but something about that doesnt sound right either, unless it is pointed and rotating..


picture one has this "drill-mark" in the middle (seen very few of these)

Picture two is of a "normal" coin with a unpunched centerhole,
(this one also has a die chip on the other side, so far unique)

picture three has two uncentered holes, both with irregular shape, I guess because of the metal moving due to the free space after the first hole was punched..


Thank you for info on die deteriation. And the checklist you have made
is great, it has been a big help. Has it been updated lately? I mave have an older version, found it here in this forum a while back, dont know how often it is updated.

[diamond]

I doubt the hole is drilled. That would be much too slow a process. It would have to be punched out. I too have seen the "dimple" you describe, indicating an aborted effort to punch out the hole. Perhaps this is made by some sort of guide or "harpoon" that fixes the coin in position before the actual punch descends. I'm just guessing, though.

The checklist is updated every few months, but I haven't submitted current version yet for distribution. The changes are relatively minor.

[diamond]

I see what I did wrong. After striking errors I tossed in a bunch of odds and ends that don't fit that or the previous categories. However, I failed to demarcate the cutoff point. I have corrected that and will generate an updated list.

I`ve just read through the Error/Variety Checklist and noticed that the category "mispunched center-holes", is placed under Striking Errors.

Can anyone elaborate this a little? It seems odd to me, here in norway we have many coins with hole-errors, and I`ve always thougt of these as Planchet Errors. I thougt the hole was made after the upset-mill but before striking. Wouldn`t the hole shrink/loose its shape when the planchets are struck?

Furthermore, is it right that these holes are punched out? I do belive they are drilled out, because I have some coins with a partial hole, were you can clearly see it has been drilled.

Another thing that caught my eye, is that Die Deterioation Doubling, is placed under both Die Errors and Striking Errors.

Information on this is greatly appreciated.



By the way, just recived the new error coin encycklopedia in the mail now, great book!