Welcome!

Log in or register to take part.

CONECA (pronounced: CŌ´NECA) is a national numismatic organization devoted to the education of error and variety coin collectors. CONECA focuses on many error and variety specialties, including doubled dies, Repunched mintmarks, multiple errors, clips, double strikes, off-metals and off-centers—just to name a few. In addition to its website, CONECA publishes an educational journal, The Errorscope, which is printed and mailed to members bimonthly. CONECA offers a lending library, examination, listing and attribution services; it holds annual meetings at major conventions (referred to as Errorama) around the country.

CONECA was formed through a merger of CONE and NECA in early 1983. To learn more about the fascinating HISTORY OF THE ERROR HOBBY and THE HISTORY OF CONECA, we encourage you to visit us our main site Here

If you're not a member and would like to join see our Membership Application

We thank everybody who has helped make CONECA the great success that it is today!

Register Now

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Correlation of "Tails" to "Wavy steps"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Correlation of "Tails" to "Wavy steps"

    Well, we might as well get this forum off to a flying start with the discussion of the correlation of "trail" lines to "wavy steps".

    First, I would like to say that these anomalies are a very underrated variety that has all the complexities of a doubled die and the numbers that may reach RPM proportions. This obscurity maybe due to the fact that the exact cause of how they are formed is still unknown, but that may change in the near future.

    Two of the more debatable theories concerning these anomalies are; Is there a connection between "rails" and "wavy steps" and are they a doubled die. This discussion will be concerned with the correlation of the two anomalies to each other.

    As Mike Diamond mentioned in the "variety image gallery (strongest wavy step to date)" it is common to see wavy steps without trails, however, it does happen and the below photos show such a die.







    This is a picture of a 1994P Lincoln cent reverse. The top photo shows the combination of both trail lines from the A of STATES and some of the letters of EPU and the wavy steps below the columns (#2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9). The next two photos are the magnified areas that are affected. All the lines, whether 'trails" or "wavy steps" travel in the same direction, 190 degrees. oddly enough, this is not the only die to show this correlation; there is another 1994P that has trail lines and wavy steps in a direction of 180 degrees and a 1998P that has trail lines and wavy steps in the direction of 170 degrees.

    Not only do trail lines and wavy steps (fluting lines) travel in the same direction on the same die, their appearance is very similar in that they are narrow lines that taper off.

    You may ask why this assumption is important. The answer is fairly simple but may have far reaching consequences. If trails and wavy steps are one and the same anomaly, then the theory that wavy steps is a doubled die is extremely questionable. The part that was supposedly doubled was the fluting lines in the column and it would not be possible for fluting lines to be in the EPU or in the word STATES or any of the other places trail lines have been seen. What we are seeing is not design element doubling but design element extension, something totally different.

    This is the crux of the situation; do "Trail" dies (which would include wavy steps) deserve a stand alone classification, apart from doubled dies?

    I thank you for your time and for reading this.

    BJ Neff
    Member of: ANA, CCC, CONECA, Fly-in-club, FUN, NLG & T.E.V.E.C.

  • #2
    I've always doubted the doubled die scenario. Since these defects are strongest in early die states, I think it's quite likely that it relates to hubbing. Exactly how, I'm not sure. But BJ has shown that there are consistent patterns that make it unlikely that annealing, quenching, and tempering of the die is the culprit.
    Mike Diamond. Error coin writer and researcher.

    Comment


    • #3
      tough question!

      Trying to give a simple answer to this isn't easy.
      I might have a few wrong terms but hopefully the general idea makes sense.

      I think trails are caused when they hub the die, the hub touches the die and the high points cause gouges as it snaps into the alignment guides. If it cocks one way then reverses then aligns it can cause more than one direction of trails.

      If there are trails from the columns then when it does align and they squeeze it the vertical gouges from the columns under the hoizontal steps make the steps have a wave. The underlying trail direction causes the direction of the waves that we see.

      So from a simple point of view I say trails do cause wavy steps.

      To call them double dies? It seems to be a design element that shows on the die other than the primary design so in a way it's like a double die but double dies are squeezed into the die and these may only be dragged over the surface so they're shallow. So it's similar to a double die, it has a shifted remnant caused by a design element but I don't think it was squeezed so it's not exactly the same. This is why it is hard to say they're double dies but also hard to say they're not.

      Comment


      • #4
        Things that are known about "trails"

        Did some thinking today and thought that I would share this information with all of you.

        Things known about "TRAILS" (and wavy steps).

        1. They occur on both obverse and reveres dies.
        A. There are a few examples with trails on both the obverse and
        reverse die of the same coin.

        2. They have been found from 1986 to 2007.
        A. Can be found on business and proof strikes.
        (1). John Wexler has forwarded a picture to me of a 1984
        Proof Lincoln cent with wavy steps.

        3. Denominations affected.
        A. Lincoln cent
        B. Bison nickel
        C. State quarters
        D. Bob Piazza reported a Washington dollar with trails but due
        to the high price, was unable to obtain it ( it was also a
        blank edge).
        E. I can remember seeing a Sacajawea dollar with trails from
        the wing tips of the eagle on the reverse.

        4. Affected design elements.
        A. Lincoln cent
        (1) all design elements except Lincoln's bust, however, the
        bow tie has been seen with trail lines.
        B. Bison nickel
        (1) the unmentionables have trails.
        C. State quarters.
        (1) trees on the reverse.

        5. Trail directions
        A. full 360 degrees, most commonly seen in 10 degree increments.
        (1) single direction is most common
        (2) dual direction has been seen
        (a) reciprocal direction lines are the most common
        (b) very few dies have two directional lines that are not
        reciprocal.

        On their being a doubled die or not.

        Doubled die definition: A die that has been hubbed once and then hubbed a second time with an offset in direction occurring between the first hub to the second or subsequent hubbings. This results in a duplication in part, or in whole of a design element or elements.

        A. As applied to the single squeeze hubbing.
        (1) A die, that during hubbing, has a positional shift, in
        relationship to the hub, which cause a duplication
        of the design elements or elements due to this shift.
        (2) A die that has an aborted hubbing and was repositioned so
        that the first hubbing impression was not in line with the
        second hubbing transfer of that design element.
        (3) The third method has conflicting reports on whether it does
        happen or it does not. The die has multiple hubbings.

        In all cases, doubled dies produce a doubling affect on a design elements.

        Design extension. Caused by a movement of the die to the relative position of the hub. This movement causes the high points of the hub to cross over the die face, creating lines as the die (or possible the hub) moves. In no cases is there a replication or duplication of a design element, only a continuation or extension of that design affected.

        Oddities.

        1. Combination trail dies and doubled dies
        A. There are more than a few trail dies with doubled dies, especially on
        the reverse of the Lincoln cent where you will have extra columns
        and wavy steps.
        (1). There is one example of an obverse trail die on a Lincoln
        cent, with trails on LIBERTY and a minor Class II + VI doubled
        die on the date and TRUST.
        (2). There is one example of a obverse trail die on a Lincoln cent
        with trails and a doubled die on the
        same design element, LIBERTY. See Coppercoins', 2006P-1DO-
        016 for pictures of this die.

        2. Split columns.
        A. The last oddity for this post. Why it occurs and skips columns is a
        mystery.



        BJ Neff
        Last edited by wavysteps; 08-16-2007, 09:44 PM.
        Member of: ANA, CCC, CONECA, Fly-in-club, FUN, NLG & T.E.V.E.C.

        Comment

        Working...
        X