2001 P 25c NC DDO?

[russellhome]

Is this 2001 P 25c NC quarter a DDO? What do you think? Billy Crawford found a similar (if not exact) anomaly on a 2001 P NC quarter several years ago (if you have a copy, see page 22 of DVN Issue #5). Crawford listed his example as CDDO-001. It may just be lighting or die state, but my example shows part of the 'Extra Curl' passing through the regular design - and Crawford's example does not have this as far as I could see.



If not a DDO - these raised marks (gouge or whatever) are strikingly similar to the WI 25c "Extra Leaf" in that it is curved and shows two parallel marks.

My first thought was a clash -- but the design on the reverse that would strike behind the ear didn't seem to fit (see area in the red circle). Note: the reverse image is flipped and inverted.



Your thoughts please...

[wavysteps]

Hi Ken - It is hard to say what that is. it could even be a curl that is offset and rotated which would make it a doubled die. I like your thinking about the possibilities surrounding the "extra leaves". Who knows, there could be a link to both anomalies.

BJ Neff

[russellhome]

BJ

I can't see any way an offset would cause this extra curl (which is what caused the double earlobe varieties). There is nothing nearby that looks anything like the 'extra curl' behind the ear. I like your rotation idea. It has happened before on several Lincoln Cent DDRs. I'll play around with it and see if I can come up with something as a potential source.

I'll also try to do some better photos.

Ken

[russellhome]

With stricktly rotation, I couldn't find anything to match the doubling. With rotation and offset, there are many strands of hair that could be responsible. But the best fit I found was with a simple offset to the southwest. It is a pretty significant offset -- but not unheard of. There are several Ocean in View nickel DDRs with this much of an offset.



My quarter is worn - so some of the hair detail does not show. But when I used the U.S. Mint image for the design (which includes the full hair detail), it is clear that the raised marks could come from the curl just north and east of the raised marks behind the ear. It would be better to have an UNC EDS example -- but I think it is certainly plausable that this is a DDO.

[russellhome]

Here is as tight of a closeup as I could get. There appears to be 3 raised 'hair like' lines behind the ear - with the lowest one passing through the ponytail hair. It sure looks to me like an 'extra hair/curl' DDO. It would be nice to see this on an EDS BU example -- so if it is a DDO, you could clearly see the potential source of the doubling. This coin is not worn out - but it is showing wear on the high spots.

[russellhome]

I've been doing more horsing around with trying to find a potential source for the raised marks on this coin. The area I showed in an earlier post (curl to the northeast) just does not fit. The high-points are just too far apart. But I did find another area that is a good match. Here...



But to get that area to match up with the lines behind the ear, rotation and offset are required.



The large image below is of a BU SMS 'State' quarter. It is a regular obverse (not a DDO) and is an early die state showing all the design detail. I copied a section of hair from the pony tail (the light colored area), rotated it a bit and pasted it in the area the marks appear on the potential DDO. It fits really good - having the appropriate amount of space between the lines. Perhaps this is the source and it is a DDO.



I know this is a stretch -- but it is fun to try and figure out. This section of hair is at least the possible source of the doubling. How it could happen with this amount of rotation and offset... I have no idea.

[wavysteps]

To be honest with you, I do not think it is a streach and the match looks great. I would definitely send some pictures off to Ken Potter, James Wiles and John Wexler and see whaat they think.

BJ

[russellhome]

Searching more circulated quarter rolls tonight, I found another anomaly behind the ear on a 2001 P NC quarter. However, this one appears to be the result of a die clash.



I suspected that a clash would produce lines behind the ear. But the lines are faint, thin, and straight. Plus - there are some other clash remnants in the dip between the neck and jaw.

So from what I see here, the 'Extra hair' NC quarter from the original post does not appear to be the result of a die clash.

[wavysteps]

Ken - I agree with what you have said and I still favor the doubled die produced by a rotated, offset "first kiss" in that area. I just can not see it as a clash, however, I have been wrong once (the extra beard on Lincoln).

BJ Neff

[russellhome]

The Wexler verdict is in... John has determined that it a DDO.

The 2001-P North Carolina quarter is a doubled die and is now listed in my files as 2001-P 25c NC WDDR-001. It is certainly different as it is the first State quarter DDO that is not a doubled earlobe!

The 2005-P Minnesota State quarter is also a new listing in my files. It is listed as 2005-P 25c MN WDDO-006.

This is the MN DDO he was referring to...



When they get back, I'd be happy to send them off to Dr. Wiles for evaluation.

[wavysteps]

Great going Ken. Two more that you can add to your list of discoveries. Congratulations.

BJ Neff

[f6tornado]

Ken,
I have attached two pohotos. The first is the 2005-P MN DDO#2 that I also found in Virginia. The next is the 2005-P CA DDR#1 that ken Potter already confirmed a while back. Again I found both in Virginia. as far as I know, no one else has found the California DDR. I also have a NC "dbld Curl" quarter somwhere. When I find it I will post PICS as well to see if it matches any of the ones you have found.
Regards
Harold

[russellhome]

That is a nice double earlobe - and very well could be the same one I found. When I get it back, I'll check it to see if I can ID any markers.

About the CA DDR... Ever since the CW article came out, I've been looking there. Apparently it is not another "Minnesota" -- and was not a common occurance while making the CA dies.

I've been searching circulated quarter rolls for some time now and I'm getting the sense that distribution of the new quarters is somewhat uneven from one release to the next. For example, California, Minnesota, Iowa and Alabama quarters seem to be relatively hard to come by in the rolls I get from my bank. I may open 10 rolls and not find but one or two of these. On the other hand, it seems like Virginia, New Hampsire, Maryland, and others have multiple examples in just about every circulated roll. So until or unless things even out a bit - I'll be hard-pressed to find a CA DDR. I just don't see them very often. Perhaps I'll try visiting branches of my bank in other cities to see if I can get a different mix.

[f6tornado]

My friend back home saves all his change for me to look at. I gave him a list of dates to save. That is where I found the CA DDR quarter. I have found a few other goodies in the change he saves; (2) CUD WV 25C, (2) 1997 DDO 1c, (1) MN DDR#3, several 2006 DDO 1c (Not the BIG ones though). In Hawaii though mostly Denver coins. Perhaps I will get lucky and find a few out here, nothing yet. There might be some die markers on the MN DBLD ears we have. I will look at mine and see if there are any on the OBV. The only CP I have done as of late, I found the following, 1999-S PR 1C NGC69 CAM Close AM not on holder and a 2005-P SF 25C PCGS69 OREGON DDR#2 not on holder.

[f6tornado]

I found several die scratches running the last "A" in MINNESOTA. I have attached a PIC.