View Full Version : TRAIL DIES Countries, Year, Coin Denoms and Token

05-30-2008, 02:16 AM
To give everybody a feel of what the worldwide mints have, have attached the summary table of available data I have gathered.

Just my own thoughts...

- We are not alone...TRAIL DIES are inherent to worldwide mint processing.

- It is a "low tech" mechanical problem that the mints are definitely aware
of...but maybe very difficult to control/fix and/or will cost a lot to do so.

- Considered by the govt. mints as only a "cosmetic issue" that does not
prevent distinctions nor problems on it's mechanical uses (e.g., vending

- Further, it is a "don't care" for the mints for the BASIC REASON that
nobody requires them to fix...

1. Privatize them, then be required by the govts. to fix as part of the
coins specs.
2. Or the countries' citizenry (particularly us ERROR COLLECTORS) demand
from the govt. mints the perfection of our coins to make it much more
difficult to find.

(I'm staying late tonight to continue digging from my coin stacks (to
hoard) before our Mints obliged to do so and fix.)


05-31-2008, 06:25 PM
I am rather curious about some of your statements. You say that you have gathered this information, and that these are just your thoughts. In other words...which is it? Is it factual data, or strictly your opinion. I ask for a specific reason. If there is information that the mints are putting out about these trails dies (whether from the US Mint or Foreign Mints), I would certainly like to see and read about it. A part of this and other forums is to pool information and try to find a consensus on how things happen. As far as I know, BJ's theory on how trails are formed is as in depth as anything I have seen... And at this point, the only thing I have seen. It is at this point still a theory. Your statements lead me to believe that the Mint(s) know about this thing, and think so little of it that it is nothing more than a nuisance? I find that hard to believe. The Mints are in the habit of trying to put out the best product out there. If they didn't care, there wouldn't be a quality assurance division within them.
According to your chart, you have seen trails dies on other world coins? What makes you assume that they are inherent to everyone, and that everyone thinks so little of them? Could you post some pics of the ones you have seen?
There is one thing about listing your opinion and another thing about misinformation. We must be able to distinguish between the two, and right now, I can not do that based on your statements. On the other hand, if you have links/data that can back up your statments, please pass them on as some of us have been waiting a long time, and have been doing a lot of research and have not come up with what you have so far. Please share:)

06-01-2008, 04:37 PM

I hear you. FYI, I was also a Quality Manager of one of the most sensitive product technologies we have today (and will be for a long while).

- The "facts" are in the matrix I have provided.

- When I say..."Just my thoughts..." on forum topics,
they are mainly driven by "relative facts" I have
observed. Combine them with my background and
experiences, I'd call them "educated, experienced,
calculated (...and sometimes guess-timated-
ballparked)" opinions. You maybe familiar with the
following that have spiced some of my thoughts here:
1. Customer careabouts
2. Coin defect specifications
when deciding which problem to address.

As in all forums, readers either dismiss them or take
something from them while in their diagnostic
THEIR OWN INTERESTS on the forum subject.

Note that when I have facts in hand, I'll present them as
facts and not opinionated thoughts.


06-02-2008, 11:41 AM
I certainly agree with your thoughts on this J, however I have read many of your threads where you insist that you are a novice about these things. Yet, you assume to know things that many of us who have been in this business for many years (40 in my case) have tried to find and discuss. I can not and will not challenge your 'expertise' as I do not know you.
Being that, you still did not address my main questions in the last email. You have not posted pics of other world coin trails dies, nor have you given concrete information from the mints for me to follow up on. This sort of information is important to me, and part of my research is to follow up and verify all information provided to me. That is all I am trying to do here.
You say your evidence is in the matrix you provide, and that it is fact. I fail to see where a chart with X's on it can be viewed as fact.
The one thing we completely agree on in this thread is that
readers either dismiss them or take
something from them while in their diagnostic
THEIR OWN INTERESTS on the forum subject.

I would really love to satisfy my interest based on the information you provide, however, until more suitable and verifiable information from you comes forth, I can not do that. It comes over as nothing more than your opinion for the subject at hand. It seems obvious that you pride yourself on what you know, and you insist that when you have facts in hand, you will present them. That is all I am asking you to do.

06-02-2008, 07:07 PM

Am really is new 5- month old enthusiast in this hobby and just deriving my analogioes, logics and conclusions on the facts I saw.

- To further clarify, I don't have any white papers on this "trail die" subject.

- I said the "facts" are in the matrix:
1st Group - confirmed by the 2 threads, 1964 a& 1983; and 1957 &1959
which I've sent the 2 coins to BJ. He should have them early
next week.
2nd Group - My confirmation thru visual inspections of trail's existence in
the different worlwide coin denominations (old and new

- My conclusions were driven by the above facts (and not from any existing
references or write-ups on the subject):
1. Inherent - Referencing its existence worldwide for different processes
- Different countries -> differerent processes, old and new processes
- Old techs (multiple hubbings or single squeeze)
- Date span - from the matrix (1957 to date)
- What is the % of the existence of the problem when from a few
samples I looked at, confirmed the trails? One can use the same
math in determining how many maybe in circulation of certain
discovered varieties or error based from the samples found and
known qty in circulation.

2. Low tech problem - Mechanical movements deviations. Won't need
rocket scientist to fix.

3. Awareness of the problem - With the minting existence/experiences
and the existence of this "trail" since the 50's, mints should be very well
aware of the problem?

4. Why still not totally fixed? See my opinionated reasons I've stated.

As for the other thread comments, you'll only see the persistent characteristics, If I can present observations that have the potential
to be showing otherwise. But when adequate evidence are there telling me
I'm wrong, I fold.


06-02-2008, 07:11 PM
Until verified by photographic evidence, your claims are not credible.

06-02-2008, 07:38 PM
I'm working on it. I had the on and off camera problems I'm having when I looked at them.


06-02-2008, 07:57 PM
Very well. I will leave things as they are. I didn't think my request for some sort of 'proof' would have led to this. As Mr. Diamond has stated
Until verified by photographic evidence, your claims are not credible.
When and if that information becomes available, I will revisit this .

06-04-2008, 08:45 PM
I will not be able to provide the foreign currencies photos.
FYI, I am not the owner of those coins, and have requested the owner
but he won't allow me to publish (whcih I 100% understood).

In lieu, I am taking photos of my Lincoln cent TRAIL DIE COLLECTIONS
and will publish as a new thread.


06-04-2008, 11:02 PM
I really think you just ought to let this go J. There are always different excuses you seem to come up with when approached for some sort of proof.
I had a whole page written about what I think is going on with you, but this is not the place to post it. After trying to be cordial and cooperative, I have come to the conclusion that no such evidence or data exist. In that regard, I think this thread is toast.