Totally Confused ???

[Nickelman]

I recently sent 4 nickels in for attribution.
All where deemed Machine damage doubling. 2 of these I had my doubts about bout the other 2 I'm just scrathing my head?

The first is what I thought to be another 1954 S/D variety. What kind of machine doubling makes this????

The second is a 1986D I thought was a RPM. My question is how do you get machine doubling this far apart and nothing else on the obverse is doubled? I'm not saying it's not machine doubling just don't understand how?

I'm just so confused

[JamesWiles]

On the 1986-D, the arrow pointing inside the mintmark is to a metal flow line caused by the die deteriorating throughout its life. The arrow on the outside of the mintmark is pointing to a small contact mark. The MDD is hidden in the shadow of the vertical bar.

On the 1954-S, the MDD is easily seen to the East and the North on the upper loop. Your arrows are again pointing to metal flow lines. There is a lump in the lower loop caused by the deep punching of the mintmark, which is a common occurence, especially on nickels. Incidently this is probably what caused the MDD. The mintmark was deeply punched causing it to momentarily stick to the die before it was pushed off by the feeder fingers.

Your other two coins exhibit the same characteristics. You are seeing metal flow lines and confusing them with a secondary mintmark.

[Nickelman]

Thanks for the explaination. I still don't agree but we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

[JamesWiles]

I don't mind people disagreeing with me, especially when they are trying to learn. I have been known to be wrong before and no doubt will be again. I pointed out the MDD on your coins, when what you were really questioning were the metal flow lines. Hopefully some others will chime in on this thread and give their opinions. And if you are still convinced they are RPMs, I would suggest you seek out another attributer for a second opinion.

[atrox001]

Nickelman…I understand how you feel after getting an attribution back from James Wiles that doesn’t turn out to be what you thought it should, I have been there many times. What I do is put the coin aside for a day or two and then look it again. I always end up seeing what he is talking about, a usually feel so stupid. He has always been right. I think people will have a very hard time commenting on your 54S, because of the photo quality.

Larry Nienaber

[Nickelman]

Thanks Larry,

I am disappointed Yes! But not upset with James. I sent my coins to him for his opinion and thats what I received. Like I said in the opening post I aggree with 2 of the finding and disagree with 2 others. As James said he has been wrong and so have I and I know the odds are in his favor but I know what I see also.
I'm still trying to learn I've about wore the cover off of James' Book the Jefferson Nickel RPM Book - even some of the ones listed in there for the likes of me I can't figure out what the picture is trying to show or how its considered an RPM.