1897(P) Morgan - Can't nail down VAM

[occnumis2021]

So I think I've come to the conclusion, with the help of some folk over at Cointalk, that this particular coin seems to be an unlisted / unidentified VAM. That makes a lot of sense to me, because I'm usually pretty decent at figuring out Morgan VAM's (even if I'm a bit on the slower side of it) and I am still utterly stumped as to this one even after your help and with the assistance of the Cointalk members. This conclusion was drawn once it was pointed out that the die study is still "in progress" so this could very easily be one of those coins where the particular VAM has yet to be listed. Unfortunately, I suppose I'm going to have to just put this coin into my album and forget about the VAM for a little while (maybe a long while) and be happy with that. Thanks for all of your help and your time, and I'll catch ya on the next topic!

with discoveries, it will still need to have a specific feature that separates it from known listings or it will just fall under another VAM number.

i'll look it over as since the date matches some vams, imo, all it takes is finding some other pups.

i presume you looked at the 3 pages i mentioned to see if your coin has any of those features? (there may be other listings that use that obv and/or rev)

if you really get hard up and wanna save some time, just join vamworld. there is plain and simply no better place for doing vams online. if you don't mind doing a little legwork, you'll fit right in. they like to help others learn, not just do things for them (usually).

[occnumis2021]

ok for sure not V10. the date is off a bit.

i see some wing-neck stuff going on from your au-natural full coin images. check the 1B and 1C. can't tell if your coin has the wing gouges or not. i don't see the die break around America from the images.

http://ec2-18-221-104-31.us-east-2.c.../1897-P_VAM-1B

[No_Ragrets]

with discoveries, it will still need to have a specific feature that separates it from known listings or it will just fall under another VAM number.

i'll look it over as since the date matches some vams, imo, all it takes is finding some other pups.

i presume you looked at the 3 pages i mentioned to see if your coin has any of those features? (there may be other listings that use that obv and/or rev)

if you really get hard up and wanna save some time, just join vamworld. there is plain and simply no better place for doing vams online. if you don't mind doing a little legwork, you'll fit right in. they like to help others learn, not just do things for them (usually).

I believe this date is something specific to whatever VAM this coin is. The 1 specifically looks like it has tripling or quadrupling going on, and that carries over on the rest of the numbers but not as pronounced as it is on the 1 itself.

I am on vamworld very often, especially since I've tried identifying this particular coin. I probably accounted for at least 5% of their traffic over the past week alone lol! I am never afraid of learning the ropes on how to accomplish something, especially if it expands my knowledge base on coinage even just a little bit! To be honest, I never saw the "Log In" section on the site until just now. I'll click on it and see where it takes me.

And another aspect of this coin that drives me crazy is the details. Some of them look pristine while others look like they've been through war. There are absolutely no die cracks anywhere to be seen on this coin and I have yet to spot any gouges. That doesn't help with trying to identify the VAM, but it is what it is. There are some polishing lines in the cap curl as well as between the left side of the eagle's neck and wing.

[occnumis2021]

I believe this date is something specific to whatever VAM this coin is. The 1 specifically looks like it has tripling or quadrupling going on, and that carries over on the rest of the numbers but not as pronounced as it is on the 1 itself.

I am on vamworld very often, especially since I've tried identifying this particular coin. I probably accounted for at least 5% of their traffic over the past week alone lol! I am never afraid of learning the ropes on how to accomplish something, especially if it expands my knowledge base on coinage even just a little bit! To be honest, I never saw the "Log In" section on the site until just now. I'll click on it and see where it takes me.

And another aspect of this coin that drives me crazy is the details. Some of them look pristine while others look like they've been through war. There are absolutely no die cracks anywhere to be seen on this coin and I have yet to spot any gouges. That doesn't help with trying to identify the VAM, but it is what it is. There are some polishing lines in the cap curl as well as between the left side of the eagle's neck and wing.

well if you get a little extra money together and have 3-6 morgans/peace laying around, you can just send them to VSS. there is really no one higher on the totem pole whom is active than John, so even if you don't leave them in his holders, just using him for his professional attribution service is something you ought to get familiar with, if you aren't already. a true gentleman in our many dozens of interactions.

i know the attrubution channels have changed so you may have to ask which person is getting which type coins as i think john is letting peace dollars go to Dr. Close. memory is failing me just now.

i'll look over your close-ups one last time to see if i missed something but if you are looking at the vam pages and have a good familiarity with finding pups and have good eyes/loupe, then the ball is in your court but there are still vams that just fall into generic categories due to lack of listable features.

let us know how it turns out.

[occnumis2021]

your coin looks pretty snazzy from the vid.

i see the "quadrupling" on the 1 and MAYBE on other features, so that is a big plus.

didn't see anything mentioned on any of the pages about potential quadrupling at the date, so you may have a good revision or discovery coin but i'm NOT the one to say for certain. i can help ppl filter stuff out though.

good fortune to ya.

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[No_Ragrets]

your coin looks pretty snazzy from the vid.

i see the "quadrupling" on the 1 and MAYBE on other features, so that is a big plus.

didn't see anything mentioned on any of the pages about potential quadrupling at the date, so you may have a good revision or discovery coin but i'm NOT the one to say for certain. i can help ppl filter stuff out though.

good fortune to ya.

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If this is a discovery coin, and assuming I choose to send it somewhere, who would I send it to? And how long would they potentially have it? I think it would be pretty cool to have my one-off be an actual discovery coin, but I suppose the overall cost to do so would be a minor contributing factor, too. All in all, I'm really happy with this coin even considering the headaches I've gotten trying to attribute the VAM, which seems like it was destined to fail from the get-go due to everything we've already discussed.

I sincerely want to thank you for your help on this. I try my best to learn what I can from researching online but I am still pretty new to this (maybe a year and a half in to collecting, at best) so I know that I simply do not know everything. In fact, I know that I know very little. I've got a good eye but that's about it. Obviously, I tend to overlook some of the simplest things like a big block on a website that says the die study is in progress, but it doesn't end there! Anyways, thank you again! You have helped me immensely so far, and this is just the beginning of my posts!

[occnumis2021]

If this is a discovery coin, and assuming I choose to send it somewhere, who would I send it to? And how long would they potentially have it? I think it would be pretty cool to have my one-off be an actual discovery coin, but I suppose the overall cost to do so would be a minor contributing factor, too. All in all, I'm really happy with this coin even considering the headaches I've gotten trying to attribute the VAM, which seems like it was destined to fail from the get-go due to everything we've already discussed.

I sincerely want to thank you for your help on this. I try my best to learn what I can from researching online but I am still pretty new to this (maybe a year and a half in to collecting, at best) so I know that I simply do not know everything. In fact, I know that I know very little. I've got a good eye but that's about it. Obviously, I tend to overlook some of the simplest things like a big block on a website that says the die study is in progress, but it doesn't end there! Anyways, thank you again! You have helped me immensely so far, and this is just the beginning of my posts!

yw. you eared part of my help by being active and posting useful images.

keep at it and have fun and slowly keep improving a little here n there, like all of us, no matter how long we've been doing it.

you vett them through VW. then IF it turns out to be something no one can find, then it will most likely go to vss, john baumgart but i'm not 100% how all of it is set up these days off the top of my head. just gotta make a post over there to see if anyone can see anything i may have missed but perhaps those people on the other forum(s) you posted this that said it looks like a new one was right on the money.

[No_Ragrets]

yw. you eared part of my help by being active and posting useful images.

keep at it and have fun and slowly keep improving a little here n there, like all of us, no matter how long we've been doing it.

you vett them through VW. then IF it turns out to be something no one can find, then it will most likely go to vss, john baumgart but i'm not 100% how all of it is set up these days off the top of my head. just gotta make a post over there to see if anyone can see anything i may have missed but perhaps those people on the other forum(s) you posted this that said it looks like a new one was right on the money.

Just to resurrect this thread for a little bit... I sent this in to VSS and it is now a newly-listed VAM! 1897 VAM-16, to be specific. He made short work of it yesterday with receiving it, photographing it, identifying more pups than I had found, talking with John Roberts at ANACS, then listing it on VAMworld. He was a pleasure to work with and very patient with me in my many emails to him. Thank you for steering me in the right direction on this!

[occnumis2021]

Just to resurrect this thread for a little bit... I sent this in to VSS and it is now a newly-listed VAM! 1897 VAM-16, to be specific. He made short work of it yesterday with receiving it, photographing it, identifying more pups than I had found, talking with John Roberts at ANACS, then listing it on VAMworld. He was a pleasure to work with and very patient with me in my many emails to him. Thank you for steering me in the right direction on this!

glad for an update!

i will concede i was mildly annoyed that i possibly had missed (as i've done many times before) such an obvious listing with quadrupling at the date as the main descriptor BUT only to click the page to see it is a discovery. rotfl

so GRATZ!

also, glad i/we didn't miss anything and the people on the other forum(s) that called it as a possible discovery certainly know their stuff.

ya both JB and JR are a pleasure to work with although i havne't worked with JR as much as i would have liked.

[No_Ragrets]

glad for an update!

i will concede i was mildly annoyed that i possibly had missed (as i've done many times before) such an obvious listing with quadrupling at the date as the main descriptor BUT only to click the page to see it is a discovery. rotfl

so GRATZ!

also, glad i/we didn't miss anything and the people on the other forum(s) that called it as a possible discovery certainly know their stuff.

ya both JB and JR are a pleasure to work with although i havne't worked with JR as much as i would have liked.

I just recently posted it in the cointalk forum for their perusal. The members of both CONECA and cointalk are a blessing to have, as I would otherwise just been stuck with no VAM and lots of headaches! I'm not sure how often you hear it, but you deserve it at least once more. You are appreciated!! I'm still just dipping my toes into the hobby (maybe more like a cannonball at times) so having discourse with people that have far more knowledge and experience than myself makes a world of difference. So I'll end this thread with a smile on my face and a happy heart, and another thank you to everyone who helped with getting this solved. Merry Christmas to everyone if I don't show back up before then, but I'll have a hard time staying away for that long!