2019 D Quarter Question

[RGuined]

Hello,

First time posting, I made a post over on PCGS’s Forum and it was suggested to post to have a potential Double Die reviewed by you all. Below is the POst I put over there.

I have a 2019 D America the Beautiful Quarter for N. Mariana Islands. I had noticed what I believe is mechanical doubling in the arm. I include a few pictures of that. Then what caught my eye is what looks to be a doubled die in E, P, and L of E PLURIBUS. Could you experts take a look at the pictures a tell me what you think. I have learned a lot from you and appreciate you all!

Thank you in advance.

[occnumis2021]

nice pic.

dont recall seeing an incuse design listed as a ddr/ddo etc yet. 1-2 decades.

someone can correct me if im mistaken.

[MintErrors]

I agree with occnumis2021 if it's incused It's more of a chatter as the dies squeeze the design into the coin. I remember John Wexler corresponding about this subject and he was pretty firm on his findings.

I've had some doozies with the incused chatter. Rolls of them. I eventually gave them to my daughter for change at the grandkids lemonade stand.

[onecent1909]

I had noticed what I believe is mechanical doubling in the arm. I include a few pictures of that. Then what caught my eye is what looks to be a doubled die in E, P, and L of E PLURIBUS.

SO... lets start with Dies. what is raised on a coin is sunk down (or incused) on a die. with the outer letters of these quarters, the incused letters mean we have a letter on the die that is sticking up from the field. they stick up in the air. with Mechanical doubling the die bounces on the coin flatting down a raised design.
but on an incused design with letters sticking up in the air... when the die bounces, the sticking up letters will impart a design twice, and look like a doubled die. The whole coin is Mechanical doubling... that is just what MD on an incused design looks like.

[RGuined]

Thanks everyone for the comments. Your info is great, much appreciated.

[MilwaukeeBrad]

onecent1909 does the bounce happen pre strike or post strike? I'm sure I'm just missing something simple or over complicated this and don't expect an in-depth explanation here.
I do apologize for asking this beyond the OP question but since this isn't a doubled die, should probably be moved to the error forum anyway?

[MintErrors]

MilwaukeeBrad


In my opinion, it happens during the strike.its also dependent on the conditions the coin is subject to. People do think too far into it sometimes, and in the end, unless one knows exactly all of the conditions the coin and machines were subject to, its partially a SWAG.

Think about this. A back hole operator goes to dig a one scoop hole in hard clay. He attempts the dig a hole very swiftly and the machine may move some. There is resistance in that hard clay. That dug hole will not be clean and pristine and may be jagged from several conditions.... its sorta applies to the coin as well.

If the OP thought it was a doubled die, he posted it in the right area. This would not be an error, so the second best area would be the general forum. But since OPs initial thought was a variety, although atrributed differently, it still belongs in die varieties.

There are tons of reasons why things might go amuck in the printing press. Its difficult to assume that one can look at a photo and know every single condition that sparked the creation of this damaged coin.

The raised areas on the working die have to "cut" into that blank. Its a metal vs metal battle. It should take a blink of an eye. So with that force, things happen and can possibly shift ever so slightly. Minting coins is not a science,it has its flaws . Lots of things can cause a deviation of plans for that one or muplitiple coins.

Like i said above, one of the best John Wexler never seen a US minted coin with a doubled die - pertaining to modern day coinage, i tend to believe him.

Trust your resources. If there arent any documented varieties for that coin type out there, its avery slim chance one will be discovered.

The web search enginges can help you find answers as well. Then its finding out whether that reference is reliable.

[MilwaukeeBrad]

MintErrors

Thanks for the input but I keep trying to figure out how to reply to that information as it seemed like it was just genaric information about coins.

What i posted about the "tilted strike doubling" is accurate

[MilwaukeeBrad]

MintErrors
I hope it doesn't mean that I'm in the process of getting "bent over" for sending in for attribution services?

[MintErrors]

In my opinion, attribution services is all on the coin owner. They have to assume the risk, time and costs among other things. Let us know what they had to say.

[MilwaukeeBrad]

I created a lengthy list when I submitted and their fees and guidelines seemed professional as i have to follow the protocol

[MilwaukeeBrad]

MintErrors

I understood the understanding about seeing a coin and had left things there... Then news today to undermine me as a joke got some of the story figured out to sell but he's definitely no Wexler at understanding of all theoretical behaviors i cant help but mentally map of everything. So, as long as there was a number issued to a genaric 25C doubled die somehow, the store is open for me with the square design discovery too... all things equal.

[MintErrors]

I hope you get the confirmation you seek. Let us know what they say.

I personally dont collect the newer single squeeze era variety coins, but I try my best to relay what i have learned over the four-plus decades of doing this hobby.

[MilwaukeeBrad]

I only recognize or give time towards technical items of significant significance...

My favorite DD is the 1949 Lincoln Cent DDO FS-101 because of its uniquely complicated creation compared to everything else.
However, while the 2023-P Eleanor i submitted is visible to the naked eye & has to first, be the most combined unique errors found on a single coin in history. Then it's special too w/ additional bonus of accurately displayed doubled incused lettering so there can now literally be a new frame of reference.

Being the mint error guru yourself and top rated member here, I'm surprised by the lack of interest or acknowledgement of the variety even in general terms.

Im not planning to spoil anything elses related to errors but won't be brushed off. It can be confidentially argued to show the matter on facts with modeling to help.
Selling it as quickly as I found it is my main objective because I have other nonrelated projects designs I usually gift to the industry or sport