Abraham Lincoln Dollar error?

[Tuebits]

Hi,
Today going through some Lincoln dollars, I found one with what I think is an eye lid mixes into the eye brow. See pictures. The right eyelid seems to be duplicated just at the top of the eyebrow. Originally I thought it was part of the hair line, but because it has the same curve as the eyelid, I’m choosing eyelid. Your thoughts. How would I classify this one? Picture 1 and 2 have the xtra eyelid, 3 and 4 are normal.

Tuebits

[wavysteps]

There are two explanations for this. First, I do agree that it is something extra and the comparison of the four photos that you submitted make it fairly obvious. Now, this could be machine doubling or a doubled die. I am more inclined to believe that it is machine doubling, even though it is not close to the design element that it is replicating. The Sacajawea dollar coins have had similar occurrences on the obverse where her eye had machine doubling away from the original eye.

However, having said that, I would suggest sending it into one of the many experts that deals in doubled dies and see what they say.

BJ Neff

[diamond]

I'm not sure what this irregularity represents. It does not appear to be "ejection impact doubling" which is what BJ was referring to when he talked about misplaced eyes on Sacagawea dollars. EID is NOT machine doubling. It's an entirely different form of doubling that occurs as the hammer die is retracting and the newly-struck coin is thrust back into it. EID will only involves the iris and pupil -- those parts of the eye design that are most deeply recessed on the coin. That's clearly not the case with this Lincoln dollar. Also, EID will only involve the hammer die, and the obverse face of Lincoln dollars is struck by the anvil die.

[wavysteps]

In light of what Mike says (which I believe he is correct), I would suggest sending it to either one of us for an in hand examination.

BJ Neff

[diamond]

Why don't you take it, BJ. You're better at doubled dies and other forms of doubling and you're in a lot better shape than I am at the moment.

[rascal]

Why don't you take it, BJ. You're better at doubled dies and other forms of doubling and you're in a lot better shape than I am at the moment.

Mike I'm really sorry to hear about you being sick and I hope you get feeling better soon.I know what it like to feel bad , I have been in constant pain my self since 1977 and it sure is not any fun, I about have to live on pain pills. the raised line in this persons photos don't look like any part of the eyelid to me . If it is any kind of doubling then it would have to be from some part of the eye it's self or something else. It may be a die gouge since our new coins are so prone to having die gouges . then it may be from a clashed die from one of the folds in miss libertys gown but I don't have one of these dollars to check this out with . I bet BJ can figure it out.

[Tuebits]

Mr. Neff,

If your willing I'll send it your way for evaluation.

Tuebits.

[rascal]

Tuebits how many of these have you found so far? Usually when you find a coin you like there will be quite a few of them in the same rolls. You can keep going back to where you got the rolls from and get more of the same kind of errors or varietys until the bank or whatever runs out of this batch. when they switch to a new box of coins usually they are from a different batch. I took a better look at your photos and the longest hair in the brow line right below the area in question on your coin looks similar to the raised line , but it would have to be turned around to match this area.

[Tuebits]

All, and you too Rascal. I searched through the coins I had and found only one with the detail in the coin at the start of this thread. However, I found several with varying levels of detail. Then, as someone said Clash came to mind, and there it was. On the chin, robe and eye. See attached photos. Additionally, there was damage across the bridge of the nose.

So, I belive it is a classic case for /Clash.

Tuebits

[rascal]

All, and you too Rascal. I searched through the coins I had and found only one with the detail in the coin at the start of this thread. However, I found several with varying levels of detail. Then, as someone said Clash came to mind, and there it was. On the chin, robe and eye. See attached photos. Additionally, there was damage across the bridge of the nose.

So, I belive it is a classic case for /Clash.

Tuebits

There seems to be quite a few of the different types of presidental dollars from clashed dies. You should see the ones I own that BJ did a article about.part of Miss Libertys crown is easily visible on the presidents neck area and part of the presidents profile is visible on the reverse side of the coins. I have quite a few of them. I haven't been looking thru any dollar coins lately because of health problems , I had to slow sown. good luck in your roll searching . I hope you find something awesome.

[wavysteps]

Tuebits - I would even be interested in seeing this clash since I can put it on MADdieclashes.com. It would be an interesting entry into that site since it does resemble a doubled die or machine doubling. This way, with pictures, we can clear up any doubt to what it actually is.

Please contact me at MADdieclashes@aol.com if you are willing to send the coin down to me.

BJ Neff

[Tuebits]

Tuebits - I would even be interested in seeing this clash since I can put it on MADdieclashes.com. It would be an interesting entry into that site since it does resemble a doubled die or machine doubling. This way, with pictures, we can clear up any doubt to what it actually is.

Please contact me at MADdieclashes@aol.com if you are willing to send the coin down to me.

BJ Neff

I'll contact you as requested and send it along.

Tuebits

[wavysteps]

I want to thank tuebits for sending this coin down to me. Pictures can often be misleading and this is the case here. The anomaly in question is post strike damage in the form of two gouges on the surface of the coin that appear as part of Lincoln's eye.

BJ Neff

[Tuebits]

Just curious, what equipment are you using. I need to upgrade! Mine doesn’t have the capabilities to get the level of detail as you've been able to reach.

Thanks for taking a look at it.

Tuebits

[wavysteps]

I shoot photos directly through a binocular microscope using a Cannon Power Shot A720, rated at 8 Mpixel. I also have the Adobe 7.0 photoshop program which is a great help in fine tuning the pictures.

BJ Neff