1995 D Cent DDO DDR?

[Novicetoerr]

Hi All!

Unsure if images on the forehead are doubled die. If DD, unsure if source is eye area or cheek area???

Also see Reverse doublings???

Thanks!
J

[wavysteps]

Once again, I do see minor doubling, more that likely associated with machine doubling. Your pictures do not show the full stairs, so I can not verify if there are wavy steps or not,

BJ Neff

[Novicetoerr]

Thanks again BJ!

- My mistake in quoting wavy steps. Disregard.
- Both obverse & reverse are machine doublings?
Thanks,
J

[3˘nicker]

it looks to me the reverse is machine doubling but i would hold on to it and get a couple of people to give advise about the obverse in person. That forehead is very suspect to me, bring it to those who are really into errors though for the people who might be dealers of high volume and grade may only concern themselves with well known errors or varieties and may not really give you the time or sound judement to determine.

[Novicetoerr]

3cnicker,
Thanks. Those I'm novice, think that forehead is not machine doubling. Other thoughts, anybody?

J

[foundinrolls]

I think it is machine doubling.

Thanks,
Bill

[Novicetoerr]

Hi Bill,

Thanks. It really is an open question for me. Could you provide further insights (pardon if the following are dumb questions)?

- Where is the origin of the doubling image?
- How do you think it was doubled?



Thanks!
J

[foundinrolls]

there is evidence of die fatigue doubling under and around the letters E PLURIBUS UNUM

It is machine doubling at the edges of the Memorial building.

The copper-plated zinc cents also show a great deal of doubling that is caused by a movement of the copper plating over the surface of the zinc core. It manifests itself as "shadow" like doubling around the letters or numerals.

Also, doubling called machine doubling occurs if the die is loose and there is a slight twist or movement of the die as the coin is struck. That kind of doubling although collected by some has no premium attached to it.

The doubling associated with doubled dies is completely different than the doubling you see on your coin.


Thanks,
Bill

[Novicetoerr]

there is evidence of die fatigue doubling under and around the letters E PLURIBUS UNUM

It is machine doubling at the edges of the Memorial building.

The copper-plated zinc cents also show a great deal of doubling that is caused by a movement of the copper plating over the surface of the zinc core. It manifests itself as "shadow" like doubling around the letters or numerals.

Also, doubling called machine doubling occurs if the die is loose and there is a slight twist or movement of the die as the coin is struck. That kind of doubling although collected by some has no premium attached to it.

The doubling associated with doubled dies is completely different than the doubling you see on your coin.


Thanks,
Bill

Thanks Bill,

Your input is a new chunk of knowledge on this subject for me.

Please bear witrh me for an additional query... Is there a possibility of
die doubling during the hubbing process due to:
counterclockwise rotation + left upward offset + re-alignment to correct
= leaving doulbled imprints in the final die?

Thanks!
J

[Novicetoerr]

Thanks Bill,

Your input is a new chunk of knowledge on this subject for me.

Please bear witrh me for an additional query... Is there a possibility of
die doubling during the hubbing process due to:
counterclockwise rotation + left upward offset + re-alignment to correct
= leaving doulbled imprints in the final die?

Thanks!
J

Bill,

My last post is in regards to the forehead bump....J

[wavysteps]

Thanks Bill,

Your input is a new chunk of knowledge on this subject for me.

Please bear vitro me for an additional query... Is there a possibility of
die doubling during the hubbing process due to:
counterclockwise rotation + left upward offset + re-alignment to correct
= leaving doubled imprints in the final die?

Thanks!
J

When dealing with the single squeeze hubbing method, there seems to be various positional doubled dies, which are not similar in nature to the multiple hubbing method.

As it stands, the first eight Classes of doubled dies were created to define the anomalies that occurred during multiple hubbing, with each class describing what happened during the second or subsequent hubbings to create the doubling on that die (or hub).

Now enters the single squeeze hubbing process. When we look at this process, there are two types of doubled dies, continuous and non-continuous. A continuous single squeeze doubled die corrects itself through pressure; examples of this are the 2004P Lincoln cent reverse doubled dies that have a smear effect where the die shifts from one position to another during the hubbing. This will leave a primary and secondary image on the affected design elements and thus a doubled die.

The non-continuous single squeeze doubled die is one where the initial hubbing is aborted due to an out of position die. Once the die has been re-positioned to the correct attitude in relation to the hub, the hubbing is continued. However, the "first kiss" from the initial hubbing is not totally eradicated and a doubled die is created. The best example of this is the Lincoln cent reverse with extra columns (not all of this type doubled die fall into this category, however, the vast majority do).

While the definitions associated with the classes of doubled dies more than adequately covers what happened during the multiple hubbing process, it does not begin to define what happened during the single squeeze process. An analogy can be drawn between the two types of hubbing; it is like comparing a prop plane to a jet plane. They both travel through the air and get you from point "A" to point "B", however, there is a large difference in how it is accomplished.

From this the question arises, "Do we apply the first eight classes of doubled dies to the single squeeze process, even though they do not fit OR do we refine the definitions, creating a new class of doubled dies to correctly define the actions of the single squeeze process?".

I will leave you all with that thought.

BJ Neff

[Novicetoerr]

Thanks a lot for the detailed description of the hubbing processes.

1. So how's my 1995 DDO forehead bump question,...A definite a machine
or potentially a single squeeze hub doubling?

2. I'd assume no distinction to resulting DD designs regardless of single or continuous squeeze.

Regards,
J





- W


among di(among denominations, early or late stages)

and characteristics of doubling c I assume that the doubling characteristic of theeAre there distinct characteristics of DD resultants? I'm thinking


- On your question as to what needs to be done, I would definitely recommend the authors/org. who defined the 8 differences (on multi) to refine/add (am not familiar of the 8 classes) the resultants of the single squeeze.

- Which is more collectible?

-

[Novicetoerr]

Thanks a lot for the detailed description of the hubbing processes.

1. So how's my 1995 DDO forehead bump question,...A definite a machine
or potentially a single squeeze hub doubling?

2. I'd assume no distinction to resulting DD designs regardless of single or continuous squeeze.

Regards,
J





- W


among di(among denominations, early or late stages)

and characteristics of doubling c I assume that the doubling characteristic of theeAre there distinct characteristics of DD resultants? I'm thinking


- On your question as to what needs to be done, I would definitely recommend the authors/org. who defined the 8 differences (on multi) to refine/add (am not familiar of the 8 classes) the resultants of the single squeeze.

- Which is more collectible?

-

Disregard items after my closing and just consider the above 2 items.

[foundinrolls]

Thanks Bill,

Your input is a new chunk of knowledge on this subject for me.

Please bear witrh me for an additional query... Is there a possibility of
die doubling during the hubbing process due to:
counterclockwise rotation + left upward offset + re-alignment to correct
= leaving doulbled imprints in the final die?

Thanks!
J

Hi,

I am not sure if your question means all at the same time or separately.

Separately, yes. BUT to a point:-) The processes of hubbing has changed over the years and some things that were possible on earlier coins do not happen the same way today.

As to all those things happening together, this is theoretical.

Morgan dollars often had as many as twelve impressions made from a hub into die steel to create a die so that all the minute details would be transfered from the hub to the die.

So theoretically, what you describe such as, "counterclockwise rotation + left upward offset + re-alignment to correct " could all be on the same coin if the process including many impressions of a hub to make a die.

It would be left up to the folks that really dig into those things to tell us if any such coin exists that would have been struck by a die that was that fouled up:-)

All that stuff would not happen together on todays coinage.

I am not sure if that is what you are trying to ask as the question was a little vague.

Thanks,
Bill

[foundinrolls]

Hi,

The bump on the forehead is not in one of the expected places to see any type of die doubling while using the single squeeze hubbing process so ably described by BJ. The doubling is usually more toward the center of the design.

I do not feel that the bump on the forehead is the result of a doubled die.

Thanks,
Bill