2007 Wyoming State Quarter - Doubling Types

[considine]

Hi All. I have this 2007 Wyoming State Quarter. First of all the finish is very strange, the white appears to be in the finish, particularly on the reverse. On the obverse it looks like spots on the picture but not in hand.

I also see DDD on the obverse especially IGWT, D and the hair. However, the AMERICA seems a different kind of doubling and perhaps it is just MD.

The reverse appears to be a DDR but not in the same area as other listings. I see doubling on top of the Cowboy's head and THE EQUALITY STATE looks like it may have some doubling notches but of course I am not ever sure about any doubling so I need to ask.

Thank you for your thoughts.

[Kloccwork419]

The color is staining. No telling from what. Could also be the start of corrosion. The doubling on the cowboy is MD

[considine]

Thank you Kloccwork419. Appreciate your diagnosis

[MintErrors]

Hi All. I have this 2007 Wyoming State Quarter. First of all the finish is very strange, the white appears to be in the finish, particularly on the reverse. On the obverse it looks like spots on the picture but not in hand.

I also see DDD on the obverse especially IGWT, D and the hair. However, the AMERICA seems a different kind of doubling and perhaps it is just MD.

The reverse appears to be a DDR but not in the same area as other listings. I see doubling on top of the Cowboy's head and THE EQUALITY STATE looks like it may have some doubling notches but of course I am not ever sure about any doubling so I need to ask.

Thank you for your thoughts.

I appreciate you looking to see if there were any other double dies within the series

It's been a few decades and it's probably a very sure bet that no other new ones will be discovered.
of the modern coin Era, say from 1959 to present I believe that there has not been a coin minted with a DDO and a DDR. One of the last might have been a Lincoln cent in the 1940s.
1940y signature area is a link to a post about machine doubling and a little about Doubled dies, although people have difficult telling them apart, they worlds apart when it comes to appearance.

Circulated coins how ever so slight can be subjected to all sorts of post mint damage activity, it's super difficult to guess what something is via a photo. A evice that candetect what metals are within the coin would help, One other thing is weighing the coin together a general idea if it is struck on the correct metal.

[considine]

I appreciate your thoughts MintErrors. I know that the chances of finding a DDR unlisted after all these years is unlikely. However, I keep coming back to the fact that there seems to be more than one type of Doubling found on one coin. So if the DDD and MD is severe then does that mean that a DD could not be present? Could it be overlooked because of the DDD and MD on the coin and then just discounted as MD. I am not saying this is a DD. Just for arguments' sake since this question has always bothered me.

Also, coin weighs 5.6 grams.

Thank you!

[MintErrors]

I appreciate your thoughts MintErrors. I know that the chances of finding a DDR unlisted after all these years is unlikely. However, I keep coming back to the fact that there seems to be more than one type of Doubling found on one coin. So if the DDD and MD is severe then does that mean that a DD could not be present? Could it be overlooked because of the DDD and MD on the coin and then just discounted as MD. I am not saying this is a DD. Just for arguments' sake since this question has always bothered me.

Also, coin weighs 5.6 grams.

Thank you!

Great question !

Ken Potter one of CONECA's best attributers examined a 1969-S Lincoln cent that some one had found. The coin appeared to be a doubled die, but the owner new it was plagued with machine doubling. Once Ken Potter got to examine the coin, it was....Both a 1969-S DDO and machine doubling. So the answer is yes, they exist.

Here is that article:

https://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/...ledDieCent.htm

What people have a hard time grasping is that machine doubling is damage. It makes the letters, numbers and other items on the coin a bit thinner. They also are typically at a lower level. They may show a different metal type if the damage is significant enough.

With doubled dies, the key for many is understanding that doubled dies prior to 1996 were made by having a blank working die receiving multiple impressions from a master hub die. They gave the working die it's first impression, but they did not know if they had a good impression showing all the details. So they pull it out of the press, inspect it and if it needed another impression, it got it.
Now, if the mint workers didn't orientate that die perfectly, and the axis was off, a touch off left, right, up or down, the separation on each impression might be significant enough to see under magnification, and a doubled die was created. They take that newly made die and add it to a minting press, where it creates coins for the life of that die.

It's important to note that when they create these dies, they use the same amount of pressure for each impression. That means each one of the doubled die impressions should be dang close to the same height. Although extreme, the 1955 Lincoln Cent, the 1969-S Lincoln cent and Die 1 and 2 of the 1972 Licoln cent can clearly show what I mean about "same height".

Another thing is the doubling area is "set in stone" ( errr, its on a steel die, so the double die area doesn't move...) on known examples. The area where the researchers show the doubling to occur should be exactly the same place on any candidates.

Most doubled dies are not extreme, they have some separation which may show those cookie cutter lines where one impression was slightly off and that is where they overlapped.

Now as far as a doubled die goes, sure machine doubling can occur on them as well. Those dies are subject to the same machines, human intervention and oddball conditions in the striking chambers as all normally made coins.

Now, it is difficult to close without an additional comment. It's difficult to assess whether the doubled die or the machine doubling would be more evident. Since machine doubling is damaging the areas, it simply may wipe out any traces of a DDO or DDR and you may be left with the correct markers or pick up points, but the coin clearly exhibits MD in the area where there should be hints for a DDO/DDR. At that point, it's a draw and hard to prove to a buyer it is a doubled die.

If one is lucky, the machine doubling may be in a completely different area or opposite side of the coin and the doubled die shows notching ( split serifs), the classic cookie cutter lines and other signs of a DDO/DDR.

John Welxer took the time to do an article on "worthless doubling" but it shows great examples of the same coin type side by side, one photo is a doubled die, the other is machine doubling. Its worth a look:

https://doubleddie.com/144822.html

I don't have a doubled die handy that also exhibits both a doubled die and a medium to high amount of machine doubling/damage. I am going to close this post, and go see if I can find the Ken Potter article about that 1969-S Lincoln cent DDO with machine doubling and edit this in a few.

Oh, and the state quarter weight is typically 5.670 grams, so it seems to be within tolerance.

Hope info helps = )

[considine]

MintErrors your response is most informative!! This question has been bothering me for some time now and I appreciate the response. Ken Potter's article is very good but I am not sure I would be able to tell the difference as it is so subtle and must take years of experience to know for sure! Funny, I was just looking at John Wexler's article on worthless doubling right before I posted this coin

[MintErrors]

MintErrors your response is most informative!! This question has been bothering me for some time now and I appreciate the response. Ken Potter's article is very good but I am not sure I would be able to tell the difference as it is so subtle and must take years of experience to know for sure! Funny, I was just looking at John Wexler's article on worthless doubling right before I posted this coin

Ok, I think I found something and I posted it as entertaining as I could here:

https://board.conecaonline.org/forum/die-variety-forum/67230-1957-d-ddo-md-or-both-who-made-this-die