Trails ??

[Steven]

Found this 1960 Proof Jefferson that looks to have trails from cents. What do you think.

Steven

[diamond]

Although it could be a very early case of "trails", my hunch is that it's an effect related to polishing the proof die. Naturally, we'll wait for BJ -- our "trailmaster" -- to weigh in.

[Ed varietyhunter]

first on proof

Neat one Steven!

It does look like trails but we should be careful because it breaks all the rules!

If they're trails it might be the first proof with trails.
It also might be the oldest coin with trails.
Also might be the only non single squeeze coin with trails.

Are all 3 true or have any of these rules already been broken?

[Steven]

Ed,
I don't think we want to break any rules.
What Mike said about the die polishing may well be the answer to this one.

Steven

[wavysteps]

Yes, it does appear to be trails and if possible I would very much like to see this coin. If you can PM me, hopefully we can set somrthing up.

Thanks Steven.

BJ Neff

[diamond]

Remember, BJ, just because two effects look similar doesn't mean they're the same thing. There are lots of lookalike errors (and some varieties) that can only be teased apart by careful examination and analysis. My hunch is that this is a lookalike effect caused by die polishing. Now, if you can find this effect on an early die state business strike from this time period, I'd be more convinced.

[wavysteps]

Mike - Steven has kindlky agreed to send me this coin for analysis.

As you have pointed out Mike, this may be a case of over zealous die polishing on this proof die. The question may arise "could die polishing be the cause of all trail/wavy steps?"

An analogy of what is happening with this type of anomaly is likened to a rubber stamp; as that stamp is applied to the paper over and over again, the pattern remains constant with smal minute changes from stamp to stamp. Trails and wavy steps follow patterns, not only in the same year, but over a long expanse of years. With such actions as cleaning or polishing the die it is astromically improbably that the precise pattern could be duplicated over and over again due to the die technician's inability in being able to place the die in the same exact position every time to preform such actions.

However, getting back to Steven's coin. After I have finished my anaylsis, I will post what I have seen.

BJ Neff

[diamond]

I was only speaking of this one proof nickel. Wavy steps/trails obviously have nothing to do with die polishing since business strikes are not polished to any significant degree. Your other points are also valid. Wavy steps/trails also have nothing to do with intentional die abrasion.

All I was saying is that the slight extensions arising from "CENTS" in this 1960 proof nickel may be an unrelated (although superficially similar-looking) effect arising from the polishing of the proof die to a mirror-like finish.

[wavysteps]

After a short trip up north, I am back again pounding the key board.

To the question; "are these 'trails'?"



I would say "yes" they are, however, it would be like comparing machine doubling to a doubled die. While both have similar traits, they are produced differently.



From the above picture, it is obvious that this die has been heavily polished and as you all can see, the polishing has left grooves not only on the letter tops, but also in the field above CENTS in the same direction.





Further evidence of die polishing that has left some of the letters incomplete.

I am 100 % positive that this die was not made from the single squeeze process of hubbing for it was probably not even thought about in 1960. As for the correlation of these trails to what is happening now on the single squeeze hubbed dies, the only connection that might be made is the way that they were formed; by something moving across the die, with sufficient hardness to form grooves on that face.

I do want to thank Steven for sending me this die to study for it helps us understand just a bit more of what is happening with 'trail" dies.

BJ Neff

[Steven]

Thanks for taking a look BJ,
Alway glad to help any way I can with any coin I have that you would want to see..
Steven