2021 Lincoln Cent #1 - DDO/Die Deterioration/Something Else?

[thomas_benton_dehart]

Hello,

I am relatively new to this and still struggle to identify doubled dies with any certainty. The below images depict a relatively common scenario.

Here I see a date with considerable extra thickness. It strikes me as fat. I'm thinking of doubling.

Looking at the RTY, it looks pretty clean, maybe with some extra thickness... But not directional, nor do I see any notching.

Back to the date. It's definitely fat, but I don't see any notching on the date either... It's just fat.

This is when I start to think that it is a possible die deterioration scenario.

Posting for feedback and suggestions on making a more concrete/educated determination when a coin seems to straddle the line between doubling and deterioration. Is there a method you use to personally confirm/disconfirm the presence of doubling?

Thanks!

1 - dc.jpg 2 - dc2.jpg 3 - rty.jpg 4 - so.jpg 5 - sr.jpg

[occnumis2021]

fwiw, i don't see any obvious thickness. that being said, there are some pretty minor non-notched "thick but not too thick" ddo/ddrs on really modern coinage. for sure like, 99.5% of the time i can detect it from decent images but there are outliers.

always good to look over the 3-4 cent sites to see if anything has been added.

here is one of those examples of kinda thick and at an angle and enough of it across devices to confirm it as such.

http://varietyvista.com/01c%20LC%20D...001%20cent.htm

i do see 6 listed on coppercoins for 2021 P but i can't link that page the way the site is set up, so here is a snapshot.

kwjhfipuasdfhpiusadfpiuasdgh.JPG

[MintErrors]

The true doubled dies were made prior to 1996. This method used more than one hubbing or pressings on the working die so the details would transfer to the working die. After an impression was made, they would remove the working die to inspect it. If it needed another impression, it was done. If each impression was slightly off axis, and some what noticeable, a doubled die was born.

1996 and onward to present day, they don't use multiple hubbings. Its a single squeeze technology. The working die shudders under extreme pressure. People call them doubled dies, but they are technically incorrect. I will leave it at that.

I am not a big fan of the single squeeze method, nor the zinc cent.

If it is magnified higher than 10x to see, it will be considered too minor to list.

occnumis2021 - you have to open each link to the example you'd like to see, EDS, MDS, LDS and then it should offer a decent usable link. For example:

https://coppercoins.com/lincoln/dies...&die_state=lds

[thomas_benton_dehart]

Just wanted to follow up quickly: I found a really great article that explained a method of die verification, I think it's also helpful for photo verification of modern single-squeeze doubling.

Appreciate both of your inputs!

Thanks so much,
Thomas

[MintErrors]

In my opinion, some may ask the question " hey, where is the reference".
I personally am not found of two things when it comes to coin collecting varieties :

Single squeeze varieties
Zinc cents

[occnumis2021]

In my opinion, some may ask the question " hey, where is the reference".
I personally am not found of two things when it comes to coin collecting varieties :

Single squeeze varieties
Zinc cents

8 billion people buddy, 8 billion people

[thomas_benton_dehart]

https://www.coppercoins.com/edu/overlay.php

This is the aforementioned article. I was able to use this technique to basically prove that the "doubling" I thought I was seeing was actually just die deterioration.

Regarding the philosophical underpinnings on the legitimacy of single squeeze doubled dies, my understanding is that there are are only two classes of doubling found in the single squeeze era: Class 6 & Class 9 (formerly a part of Class 8, but now a distinct, single squeeze specific, class). My understanding is that the play within the hubbing chamber can cause the working hub itself to move, and that this movement in the die-making process creates the expanded or distorted devices. (Incorrect, self-edit: Although the movement now occurs with the hub rather than the die, the impression of this movement (or the doubling) is still on the die. In other words, it used to be die movement which created doubling, and now it is hub movement creating doubling.) Correction:Further research indicated that the movement has always been with the hub, and the die has always been in a fixed location. I also learned that Class I doubling is technically possible during the SS Era. Anyways I've got to actually do some work now, lol.

I'm curious: are you not interested in single squeeze doubling because the varieties don't interest you, or does it have more to do with the overall nature of Distended (VI) & Tilted Hub Doubling (VIII&IX) in general?

For my part, I have found that many of the shield cent listings on doubleddie.com are uninspiring, and I'm guessing were listed more as a reward to the submitter than for being a meaningful numismatic discovery. However, I do think that there are worthwhile doubled dies as well that are worth seeking out in this SS era.