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Doubling?
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In my opinion, It would help immensely if you told us the year of the coin and any mintmark. We could then try to find a match at several of the attributors websites.
There are several things to know about doubling, some of which you may already know.
There are coins that can be Doubled dies. There are doubled die obverses coins. There are doubled die reverse coins. It's scarce to find a coin with a doubled die on both the obverse and reverse.
Doubled dies are working dies made of steel that had the image of the coin impressed into a working die several times. If the images are slightly off, then a doubled die is born.
These impressions on the steel working die are created with the same pressure, which means they should be close to the same height when looking at the coin. The doubled dies will ADD thickness, maybe offer a cookie cutter style line where one impression overlaps another.
There is also worthless doubling which is a lot more common. The machine doubling is typically at two heights, one typically higher and the other, flatter.
The affected area on worthless doubling will be thinner if on numbers or letters. The worthless doubling can look step like, or like a shelf.
Knowing the mint mark and the year allows us to research to see if one has been found and try to match it up to existing doubled dies.
Https://doubleddie.com has a excellent article under the worthless doubling area. It's worth the read as well.
It takes a little while to grasp which is a doubled die and what is worthless doubling. Any questions? Ask away.Last edited by MintErrors; 01-26-2024, 11:36 AM.Gary Kozera
Website: https://MintErrors.org
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Thank you so very much for your reply!! I found the information you provided extremely helpful as I find it difficult to identify doubling in older coins such as the one I provided in the photos.
I didn’t provide specific information on the penny in the photos being as I was seeking general information for the purpose of helping me understand what true doubling looks as I’m not exactly sure whether the darker dye around the letters is considered doubling or not, vs identifying an error should one exist. I hope this makes sense… nevertheless, the coin is a 1977 D penny, with possible doubling? Lol. I’m still a bit unclear.
Because in your response you mentioned I’m free to ask questions, would you mind providing insight as to the photo I’m attaching? As we both know I’m very much still new at this but based on the various methods that can be used to identify true doubling such as notches, I’m under the impression that this penny here perhaps has true doubling but not quiet sure. What are you thoughts?
As I previously mentioned, I truly appreciate the information you provided along with the time you spent responding. Thank you kindly for all your help!!
Kind regards and many thanks!!
S.Attached Files
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Good answer !! We have to throw in circulation wear, but yes, it is worthless doubling.Gary Kozera
Website: https://MintErrors.org
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The key is that the devices (letters, numbers, buildings animals etc. ) should have those additional impressions at the same hieght on the coin. The coin you have is 1977 D from Denver. If you look here, you will see just one variety in the 1977 D
http://varietyvista.com/09d%20WQ%20V...O%201977-D.htm
It's not the best coin to learn from because, I will say honestly, a single letter is Not the norm for a doubled die. It's typically several letters and or numbers.
The LIBERTY on your coin looks like it is partially damaged. I used to say, it almost looks like a mini bucket loader went up to these letters and took away some of the letters. For doubled dies, there should be slight separation, and if there is a little offset, those letters may be thicker, and have that tell tale cookie cutter style line that makes the coin thicker. Notches or split serifs exist if one impression is slightly higher than the other impression. That does not always happen.
Lighting is everything when taking photos. It has to show what your trying to show. That is not always an easy task. Your photos are satisfactory. Many people struggle with clear photos and too much light. Thanks for providing so etching that was easy to see.
Think of this, the mint manufactures a brand new working die. It's inserted into a minting press and allowed to produce coins. Those Lincoln cent dies are tough, they can strike some where near 1 million Lincoln cents before the working dies are retired.
Like anything new that is used over and over, in time it wears down. As the dies do their job, occasionally they are taken out. Examined, polished to remove imperfections and returned to service. As the dies get worn, they tend to move slightly during the strike and can cause worthless doubling to happen. The working dies strike coins at jackhammer speeds.
A typical mint runs 9 to 15 machines a day, all day many days within the year to make those billions of cents or other denominations. It's mind boggling to figure out how many Lincoln cents needed to be make in 1977 in Denver per second to keep up the pace.
Some times, the mint workers become over zealous and add scratches to the die these can be used as markers. Or pick up points in order to help the attributor to correctly match the subject coin to a known doubled die. It also can help identify the stage or life of the die.
The die age can show minor cracks gouges and other imperfections too. It's best to try to find markers on the die that has the variety, since it's a matter of time, and they may replace the other die. For instance, if it is a doubled die obverse, look for a marker on the obverse side first before trying to locate on on the reverse, if the attributor found a marker to help identify the coin, it's a big help sometimes.
I will see if I can find a good example of a doubled die on LIBERTY, and add to this post this weekend.
On this forum I turned off most notifications, so I don't know when people reply. I try to help as many people who I feel are willing to learn and prosper in coin collecting. If I don't respond, it's nothing against you, I just may not see the replies.Last edited by MintErrors; 01-27-2024, 03:01 AM.Gary Kozera
Website: https://MintErrors.org
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