1932-s Quarter RPM?

[billscoins]

Hi, I'm a collecter which recently begin collecting die errors. I have a machine shop with a comparator with surface illumation. I put this on it with 50 magnification (pictures are mirriored images). It is certified from Ngc Xf45. However, I Question this. My quandry is, is it real or is it a RPM. I know about strike doubling and I do not beleive it to be the case here ( no other details affected). Please review and advise. Thanks, Bill

[diamond]

Why did you convert the photo to a mirror image?

[billscoins]

1932-s RPM?

I took a picture of the screen of on the comparator with a digital camera, it does that to the picture the camera produces. ( Thanks for your quick response) Bill

[billscoins]

1932-s RPM?

Please find attached some more images. ( Note: noninverted image was taken without the comparator.) Thanks, Bill

[diamond]

I'm not entirely sure it's an RPM. The S-mintmark on 1932-S quarters is often very elevated and sits on a plateau which I guess is from the shoulder of the mintmark punch. With wear this perhaps can be mistaken for a repunched mintmark. However, I'm going to let our die variety experts pipe in, since I'm often wrong about these things.

[billscoins]

1932-s RPM?

I just tilted the coin about 45 degrees and took another picture from this angleand cropped it. There is a clear double image from one side (please see last picture). Thanks, Bill

[JamesWiles]

This is Machine Damage Doubling. It is very common on all Washington quarters. Since this date/mint is often counterfeited, the MDD helps to authenticate the piece as genuine.

[billscoins]

1932-s RPM?

Thank you for your response. It is difficult for me to evaluate what caused this detail to be formed in this manner because of my involvment in the die making & machine industry for the last 30 years. One of the things I have picked up in my involment in reverse engineering is that people like yourself have seen many situations of similer occurance and can spot a characteristic which easly indentifies what may have caused it. I respect the years of experience that requires.
One of the things which has always caused me difficulties (besides spelling ) has been incomplete information. I think I just saw something on the coin which causes me to wonder? Around the mint mark are faint file marks in the form of a square about where I would think a weld repair or fill would be on a master die. (When a hole in steel is filled with weld the sounding area has a transition line which must be smoothed out, the file marks are were this would be). Plus, I have other double strikes and they all show some other spots of shelf doubling, this coin does not. It appears to me that the machine or deflection doubling on this coin has a round edge, not sharp and the shelf is above the defression caused by the punch shoulder.
Does this additional info change anything or raise any additional questions? This is a new area of interest to me as my previous expereience has not been with embossing dies and my knowledge of the mints manufacturing process can only be aquired using reverse engineering methods. Thanks again for your input. Bill

[billscoins]

1932-s RPM? add photos

The photos from the comparator are 50X and mirrior imaged. The doubling is 80% of the corresponding areas (which is not shown in scale because the coin is tilted) . The die features seem to show a lot of wear from the srike on the coin. So the mint mark may have been filled in with weld on the die and repunched? I know MDD is the most likely cause for this kind of error, however, some of the characteristics make me wonder?

If anyone has seen a similar case, please describe your experience and pass on your thoughts as to the possibiity that this maybe a die trail piece, after a die repair, which may or may not have been approved for reuse in production.

Thanks, Bill

[atrox001]

Check out Speedy's post in the Die Variety Forum..."RPM??". That is also a 32S quarter.

[Speedy]

I would be very interested in knowing one thing. If this coin isn't too bad worn....
Is there a die crack coming out of th eagles head? I've been researching this coin for over a year now and have seen many different types of mintmarks. The one ALWAYS has a die crack coming out of the eagles head.

Thanks

[billscoins]

reply to speedy

I may not be looking at the right place but it looks like a small die crack is running from mid neck up towards the beck. I was just looking at your posting . My coin is similiar but my ledge maybe a little wider. Bill

PS - actually the crack seems to be a scratch from from under the eagles beck to the shoulder. I really dont see the die crack. bill

[Speedy]

I may not be looking at the right place but it looks like a small die crack is running from mid neck up towards the beck.

Nope....look at the back of the head, with the crack running to the wing. I believe that there are at least two dies that struck coins with this funny mintmark. One has a die crack that is stright and running right to the top of the wing, and the other one has a die crack that runs slightly downward.

[billscoins]

1932-s RPM?

I do not see a crack with 7x.

I am working on the pictures this morning by inverting them and changing the hue. My comparator is 50x and alows me to tilt the coin at an angle to the lens like you would a coin with a loop. The images have a very small depth of view (about 1/4 of the height of the mint mark), therefor, I get only the area at the level of focus clearly in focus.
I will post my photos as I go along. I am discovering more questions about this coin. You seem like the man who has been on this road for a while I hope you will not mind some inquirerys about your experiences? Thanks for your input. Bill

[billscoins]

1932-s RPM? NEW VARIETY?

Is there a listed variety of this coin with the square in the middle of the mint mark? Thanks, Bill