Two More Weird Coins

[Merlin8971]

Here are two more weird coins with similar issues. The quarter has streaks running across from east to west. These streaks (or bands) are about .003 inch high and are totally parallel with each other. However it DOES NOT APPEAR that they deform the details on the coin. These parallel streaks or bands are only on the obverse of the quarter.

The penny has similar streaks or bands that are a bit higher, maybe .006 inch high. They are parallel on the obverse, but they are NOT parallel on the reverse. (the blue arrows show curved patterns and the far right blue arrow points to the end of a penisula shape) Again these streaks or bands do not appear to deform the details of the penny. (this is most apparent on the steps, where the steps do not seem to loose any detail).

[Merlin8971]

The Penny photos

The penny photos

[diamond]

The streaks on your quarters are something I've seen before. I don't know their cause. Your height estimates are not credible. Unless you have an atomic force microscope, there is no way you could possible measure the height, let alone acheive the level of precision you claim. I really doubt they have any relief at all.

Your cent is simply stained.

[Merlin8971]

Height estimate NOT CREDIBLE????

Have you ever heard of a micrometer?

[Merlin8971]

I do not....

I really do not want to "tee you off" but, at the age of four did your mother tell you there was no Santa Claus? You seem to be really negative and skeptical about everything.

Not that I do not appreciate your numismatic acumen, but you seem to go with, "That's not possible" first, and it seems once you have passed judgment, there is no changing your mind.

You may not be aware of this, the human fingers can easily detect surface variations of .005 inch. NOT that fingers can measure .005 inch, but they can "feel" differences that small.

I can GUARANTEE the marks on the penny ARE NOT just stains.

[diamond]

Did you use a micrometer with sharp tips like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mitutoyo-30-0-1-001-Point-Micrometer-w-case-/280586317343?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41543f6e1f

This would do the job, although you risk inflicting pinpoint damage or, if the tips slip, scratches. It would also be very difficult to precisely place the point at highest point of any raised streak or the lowest point of the valley between the streaks. That is, unless you're directing the approach of the tips under a microscope. You'd also have to make sure the measurement is from obverse field to reverse field. Please describe your measuring protocol in detail.

Based on my observation of many specimens similar to your quarter, there would be no detectable relief. Based on my observations of specimens similar to your cent, it's simply stained. If there's any irregularity in surface topography, it's undoubtedly due to chemical etching or a thin layer of adhering contaminant.

[Merlin8971]

Nope

Nope didn't use a sharp tipped micrometer, but one similar to it. Think ball. If one were to scratch or dent the item they were measuring, they would not be well versed in the proper use of a micrometer, they would not get an accurate reading and they would risk damaging the micrometer using it in the fashion.

It would also be very difficult to precisely place the point at highest point of any raised streak or the lowest point of the valley between the streaks. That is, unless you're directing the approach of the tips under a microscope. Do you have bad eyes? You seem obsessed with microscopes. It is the size of a penny, not the size of the head of a pin.

Think flat plate. That eliminates the worrisome obverse/reverse surface mismatch interference. This works even better when considering both the obverse and reverse have irregular sufaces plus the devices of the coin design on each side.

Based on my observation of many specimens similar to your quarter, there would be no detectable relief.

The observation of many specimens similar to my quarter has no bearing whatsoever on the actual charateristics of my quarter. The only possible comparison would be another quarter with exactly the same characteristics as my quarter. You are looking at a two dimensional photo.

Based on my observations of specimens similar to your cent, it's simply stained.

With the quarter and the cent you choose to IGNORE the description I gave you. Either you are implying I am incompetent to accurately describe the coins physical state (telling the difference between an irregular surface and a stain) or you think I am fabricating this? Maybe "Ruffles" potato chips have stains and not ridges.

If there's any irregularity in surface topography, it's undoubtedly due to chemical etching or a thin layer of adhering contaminant.

Are you saying chemical etching WOULD NOT destroy or deform the coin's detail? Adhering contaminant? What ever are you suggesting?

I am not trying to sell you these coins, I am not trying to impress anyone with these coins. If you don't know what has been described, it is OK to say, I dunno man, beats me.

My uneduated guess is that the quarter planchet had surface grooves that remained after coining. Doesn't really make a lot of sense. Personally, I think it makes more sense than saying the coin has no relief from a two dimensional photo. Another possibility is that somehow the die had been damaged and went unnoticed while coining the planchets. It could happen.

I am still trying to figure out how a gold coin could have a strike through that was caused by a piece of sandpaper left in the die which ALSO had the detail impressed into it and the owner of the coin was able to obtain the sandpaper strike through and the coin for a matched set. How weird is that?

[diamond]

As I suspected, your measurement protocol cannot yield reliable results. There is no way to accurately place a ball-shaped micrometer tip on an extremely thin line. It would be quite difficult to even see what you're doing since the ball will hide the line you're trying to measure the relief of. A flat tip will be even worse, as it will cover several lines and the valleys between them.

You are free to interpret your coins in any way you find satisfying. Just don't expect us to accept your observations at face value.

In any case, streaks on quarters are a real phenomenon. They could represent roller marks, scars from a rotating descaling brush, or something else. And it's possible that they arise from more than once source.