1922 no d strong reverse

[daveyboy-67]

Hi everyone, i am a new user, my name is david and i live in canada, i have a pcgs certified 1922 no d strong reverse which pcgs uses on their website(lucky me). It is however different than all others that i could examine, it shows what i believe to be doubling on the obverse in trust, differences in the eye area(third eye), top lip, as well as the forehead area where mine is clearly damaged. my issue is the picture file is too big to upload as they are the from pcgs over 4 mb, any other way to get them to the forum for review?

[daveyboy-67]

hi sorry i should have said which coin it is, in case someone was interested before i can link to it? things im not good at lol, anyway it is the 1922 no d strong reverse fs-401 vf35 bn top small picture,

[Ronald Ozimek]

One possibility is to use the snipping tool to make a screen shot and save/upload the jpg file.
This year Lincoln cent is interesting & I have been meaning to revisit a small group I have to try and identify which die the different coins were made from. There is a good article somewhere on-line covering the topic. Looking forward to seeing the photo of your coin.

[daveyboy-67]

i think this will work i hope cert_42974954_trueview_222044415_Large (1).jpg

[MintErrors]

One of the things that come with coins is die wear, When the dies are brand new and everything is sharp and working correctly, life is good. Over a period of time, after pressing hundreds of thousands of coins, these edges that were once nice and tight and making problem free coins have become a bit loose and the areas on the die become rounded and will tend to shift a bit. Add in the fact that these are machines, and unless things are perfectly aligned, things will get worse over time. The coin details on the devices on the obverse appear a bit fuzzy, not only due to wear, but could be attributed to die wear as well.

I know John Wexler did an extensive write up of the 1922 "no D" variety and if there were any known additional varieties, they would have been listed. All the 3rd party grading services have camera setups that can take some insanely detailed photographs, and I am sure they would have mentioned something if this was different.

Die deterioration, machine doubling, mechanical doubling all have to do with the machine and the slight problems that they have when a die strikes a coin. John Wexler's site is at https://doubleddie.com. I know he has a writeup about the "worthless doubling", and probably somewhere buried is the "best of" Lincoln cents and I would be shocked if he did not have all the examples of the 1922 "no D" on the website.

[daveyboy-67]

thank you for the reply, i did contact pcgs after it was graded and asked the same question you did, why did they not see it, and the response was that i needed to send it back under a different code, or verify it with you as they will not do it automatically, and yes amazing photos and wish i could have posted the bigger ones.

[Kloccwork419]

There is just extreme die deterioration on your coin, not a DDO. Im actually surprised that it wasn’t slabbed genuine. You can see on the obverse that its been cleaned and the reverse has a large scratch across it. You will be wasting money sending it back for a different grade or designation. They might stick you with a genuine label next time. I would be happy with the grade if I cared at all about a 22 “no D” or “weak D”.

[daveyboy-67]

hi thanks for the input, i did manage to do a close up of the t in trust for your closer examination, as for the scratch on the reverse, it does appear on other examples but only faintly, and requires closer inspection to see that it is a coin on edge. i will try to show examples soon. for conneca 1.jpg

[Kloccwork419]

No. Its a scratch on your coin. Not a die scratch. The obverse is die deterioration

[daveyboy-67]

thanks again for your response, so on the obverse, some parts of the scratch's as you call them, seem similar to marks on other examples like this one that is compared to mine, tiny lines forum3.jpg forum4.jpg under his ear, and along the hairline/neckline, but alot fainter it seems?

[Kloccwork419]

Well, someone else’s turn. Im done

[MintErrors]

If your getting above 10 to 20X power, it's insane. Graders and attributers stick around 10-20X, because anything higher is very ,very ,very minor.

A scratch that digs into the coin itself is more than likely post mint damage. A raised line on a coin means it was dug into the die, so when it struck the coin, that gouge/scratch into the die is now raised in the planchet/coin.

Don't treat all coins as brilliant uncirculated as this one has had travels through many hands and conditions. NO ONE can explain every minute condition or effect on every circulated coin. EACH coin is different, they take different paths and are subject to different striking times on the dies, some are struck early on in the life of the die, others are struck way late. Lighting and photographs along with different magnifications. We tend to pay attention to what the actual coin looks like and a known-good example - that's about it.

When the coin is heavily worn and one can still see that the die which struck this coin is simply in Late Die stage, or about ready to be pulled from usage because it is almost unusable, that tells us that this coin exhibits a lot of die deterioration, and that is what it is. Nothing is going to change that, and additional amplification on minute areas is not helping.

We looked over the coin, told you our opinions, and honestly, they are probably not going to change. It's time to let it rest and move on.

If a coin has been graded and slabbed, it has been sent off to a trusted attributer/examiner and given an attribution. Once it is back in hands of the 3rd party grading service, a coin is typically looked at by multiple graders. They give the obverse and reverse a score and come up with a final grade. Should the graders not come up with an agreeable grade on a coin, a senior grader will take the coin and present it with a grade. Its slabbed and sent back to the owner with findings on the label.

We looked over the coin, told you our opinions, and honestly, they are probably not going to change. What I and others may not want is to drag a coin through the mud, beat a dead horse and continue a conversation that honestly is not needed. I hope we make a point, if you have a valid question about the attribution process, feel free to ask it, but going too deep into every coin takes way too long to explain something when others need assistance as well.

Remember this IS slabbed - it has an atrribution, so it should be an easy short post, answer and agreement by some.

That's my one time explanation of what I do. Others will help to a point that the answer is clear and move on. Like I am doing now.

[daveyboy-67]

to start, i do appreciate your time, and did not mean to cause any problems or hard feelings about a coin. i might have misunderstood what your website is and was only looking for discussion about my coin and the issues with it or things i might have seen under high resolution, which i find amazing personally, but that is just my opinion. as for the grade of my coin, ? i am not sure how that would be an issue but again i have never used a forum for any reason, and maybe i will reconsider that in the future. i do believe that someone had some interest, so i will post a few more pictures but please a response is not required as my coin has been beat up enough in its first 100 years as clearly my pictures will show when i post them. once again thank you all for your time and happy collecting everyone.

[daveyboy-67]

faintly appears on other coins ? on w maybe someone spilled something on it and sorry i do see a face in between o and d also shows on some other coins but fainter, or just seeing things ( :