Machined Doubled vs Doubled Die?

[1000words]

I really appreciate and have carefully read the articles posted on this forum but it seems I cannot get it right, especially with the picture below. Can some help? I might need to hear it as though it was meant for a six year old to understand

[MintErrors]

Even for seasoned coin hunters, machine doubling can Mae them scratch their heads at times.

Let's start with doubled dies. Prior to 1996, The US Mint used a multiple squeeze technique. That means, a master working hub with all the details on it would be pressed into a working die. The mint workers would remove the die and inspect it to see if all of the details for that die transferred over successfully. If it did not, they would position the working die which was already impressed once, back under the press for another image.

Two important things to remember is, these impressions are done at the exact same pressure. That means, the working dies will have the Impressions sunk into the die AT THE SAME HEIGHT. The other vital piece of this is, when the mint worker places that working die into the press for additional impressions, if it is off axis just a bit, both of those impressions might be far enough off to call it a doubled die. Again, they should be pretty close to the same height.

Even though these years are extreme, you can look at the 1955, 1958, 1969-S and 1972 doubled dies ( ddo-001 and ddo-002) to get a good idea what I mean by both impressions at the same height.

The doubled dies should show doubling on more than one letter, number or devices. These working dies were made of steel, so the images of where the doubled dies show up, will never move locations.

The doubled dies are simply one image pressed almost on top of another. If the separation between each impression is far enough off, you then may be able to see notching or split serifs or a cookie cutter style line where one impressions was on to of the other. Typically you will see the letters, numbers or devices thicker.

I have a few articles on my educational site which may help.

I will attempt to post again about machine doubling aka worthless doubling after some well deserved sleep.

[MintErrors]

https://minterrors.org/index.php/edu...a-doubled-die/

https://minterrors.org/index.php/197...-doubled-dies/

[1000words]

Sleep is important. I am up every two to three hours and wish I had a longer shot at it. Thanks for taking the time out to respond.
You have already sent me the references on another part of this forum and I did take my time to read them.
Your explanation has helped me understand more. If I got it right does a D/D always have more than just one detail on a coin showing some doubling? The picture I posted has only one doubled location...the tip of the "6". I looked at is as equal to a split sheriff often looked for to determine a DD. I also have a 1944D 1C that has a DD mint mark that is attributed at Variety Vista but that is the only detail showing doubling.

[1000words]

Here is the 1944D/D if I am correct. It is one picture with the close up if the mint mark imposed over it to look like one picture. There is no other doubling noticeable on either side of this coin. Does that mean it is not a DD?

[MintErrors]

There is supposed to be a single coin type per post, but I will answer it.
The cent is an repunched mint mark, and can be found on variety vista. It is important to note that prior to 1983 or so, the mint marks were hammered into each working die by hand, so the positions for each mintmark can be slightly different. It can be matched up to an RPM. It may be this one....

http://varietyvista.com/02a%20LC%20R...944DRPM002.htm

[MintErrors]

I will try to answer the rest of the questions shortly. I am swamped.

[1000words]

First I apologize for the posted picture. I had no idea. No doubt there are rules/suggestions I am not aware of. Please direct me. This is not my first violation....Kennedy half's as well as a Roosevelt dime close up. Check my posts.
I think I mentioned VV attribution on the 1C 1944 D/D. That is the only way I am sure it is a D/D otherwise I would not be sure for lack of understanding.
Please wait until you are not bogged with other things. I can wait. (Swamped/Bogged...get it..corny joke).

[MintErrors]

A note not to confuse people... The D/D designation is used by many for a potential RPM that was struck in Denver. People typically use DDO or DDR for doubled dies ( obverse or reverse).

Doubled dies in order to prove that it is a doubled die, it needs more than one letter, number or device doubled. With the die being slightly pivoted or off axis, it also has to be seen at 10x magnification or lower, otherwise it may be considered a minor doubled die

The 1944 lincoln cent has a FS number, which means the variety collectors Fivaz and Stanton may have had that variety in the cherry pickers guide at one time. People tend to pay a little more for Fs designated coins if they are higher grades, like gem Bu.

[MintErrors]

The forum rules are at the top of most forum areas...

This is just one of them.
https://board.conecaonline.org/forum...orum-protocols

[1000words]

The first picture I posted showed a doubling at the top of "6". If there was no other doubling on the same surface of that coin can I then conclude that it was machine doubled? Also, if there was another doubling, a doubled die would be the cause?
If the answers to both questions was yes, please help me understand the second picture, the 1944D 1C D/D. That was a definite DDO yet there is no other doubling on that coin.
Bob

[MintErrors]

The Lincoln cent repunched mint mark is NOT a doubled die. The dies working dies back then were created first. Then, when the dies were almost ready to be used to make coins the mintmark for the appropriate mint was added.

It was in the 1990s that the mint mark was added to the design effectively eliminating the repunched mintmarks, and the need for mint workers to hammer in the mint marks on each individual working die. No repunched mint marks have been created since the mid 1980s to present day.

Happy hunting.

[1000words]

What is the "6" in the first picture? (1976) If there is no other doubling on the coin a MD, if there is another doubling than DDO? Last question I promise. Thank you so much for putting up with me. Sometimes it is the only way I can make sense of things.

[MintErrors]

The photo gets fuzzy when I try to zoom in. The possibilities are numerous. It could be some condition that was created when the die went through maintenance. It could be a slight lamination issue, it could be the coin was simply damaged.

In my opinion, there appears to be isolated machine doubling there. It kinda looks like the bottom of the 6, at 5 o'clock was pushed to the north west, it may have effected the way the coin ejected. The working dies squeeze these coins at high speeds like jack hammers to produce the numbers of coins they do in a year. Weird things happen. Take a large coin like a medallion and place it in some play dough. Then try to remove it without damaging the impressed image. Now think of a steel rod, smacking a blank planchet into the coin at high speeds.

[1000words]

Much thanks. It does get complicated. Some of the links you sent didn't work. It may be my phone but I am not sure. Here is a screenshot of what I get sometime.