1974-P Kennedy Half DBL Eye and Lips

[searching4errors]

Decided to double check some of my eBay purchased coins which I'd breifly gone over a couple of times a while back and found this 1974-P Kennedy Half which has Obverse doubling on the eye and lips. I believe that my pics, although not the very best quality, will show the doubling. All comments welcome. Thanks! Fran

[wavysteps]

Hi Frank - it looks like macine doubling.

BJ Neff

[searching4errors]

BJ... I thought that machine doubling was a flattening of the device but this is definitely not flattened. If you will enlarge the 3rd pic and look at the lips, the lower section next to the field looks just as thick and rounded as the top part. And wouldn't there be more doubling on the profile if it were machine doubling? The profile does have a thicker edge than normal but I don't really see a separation other than the lip area. Thanks again! Fran

[wavysteps]

Fran - at times machine doubling can be confusing and look a lot like a true double die. The one question that I ask myself when I see just a small amount of doubling like this is why, if it were a doubled die, was that doubling restricted to just this small area? If this were in the single squeeze era, that type of doubling could occur and be classed as a Class VIII (tilted hub). However, this is a multi hubbed die and since the area in question is not near the center of the die, it could not happen.

When determine if that doubling is a doubled die or machine doubling one must look at other factors than just what that doubling appears to be. That is where knowing the class of doubled dies and their affects on the design elements comes into play. And even that changes when working with a multiple hubbed die and the single squeezed die.

I hope that this helps.

BJ Neff

[diamond]

When it affects interior design details, machine doubling is often rounded, rather than flat and shelf-like.

[searching4errors]

Thank you Mike and B.J. for your post. I'm back after a long time away sorry for the delay in posting. Can either of you give me the website address of the different types of doubling. I'm thinking that it was a Coneca website but maybe it wasn't. I've searched and searched the web and haven't been able to find it. I had it bookmarked and lost it when I had to format my hard drive a couple of months back. Would you by chance know which site I'm referring to? Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks again! Fran

[noel biscocho]

Hi Searching...errors,

You may visit Ken Potter educational site posted there are kinds of doubling: machine and doubled die or you may also tried Billy Crawford DVN magazine I think e as an article relative to doubling of all sort including die stages.

Regards,

noel biscocho

[diamond]

Here's a useful article by J.T. Stanton:

http://hermes.csd.net/~coneca/conten...gFlyer-PDF.pdf

[searching4errors]

Thanks Mike! I looked back on some of my older post and found this link which you had given me back then. It isn't the original link I had but it surely helps.

Say... I've been looking through an uncirculated roll of Monroe Pres. $$ and I have found approximately a dozen with what appears to be a tiny die crack extending from the left side bottom of the 1 toward the $$ mark. Do you think that this might be anything special or out of the ordinary? Thanks again for your help. Fran

[wavysteps]

Fran - it is the more unusual die that does not develope a die crack or two through out its life.

BJ Neff

[searching4errors]

Thanks BJ! Do they use the reverse President $ die for more than one year?

[wavysteps]

Interesting, we are having a discussion of forum how it is possible to use a reverse working hub in adjoining years as long as the overall design elements do not change.

As to the reverse working die being used in adjoining years, that is why we have transitional coins. There also has been one instant where a reverse with a trail die (wavy steps) was used for adjoining years. So, the answers is a definite "yes", both working hubs and working dies have been used in adjoining years.

BJ Neff