1999 Canada cent ??????

[pennycat]

How's everybody? Is it an error and what kinds of error to name it ? it weight the and diameter exactly the same as the normal one. TIA.

[wavysteps]

This is not an error coin, but one that has been milled out side the mint. What has happened is that the coin has been subjected to inward pressure along the edge of the coin. This accounts for the higher than normal rims.

This process is used to form the rim on the planchet from a blank in U. S, coins.

BJ Neff

[pennycat]

BJ. Thank you for your input! However I still can't figure out how they did it
without damage the coin and keep the diameter the same?Unless that is a US penny planchet :-) Thanks again.

[rascal]

BJ. Thank you for your input! However I still can't figure out how they did it
without damage the coin and keep the diameter the same?Unless that is a US penny planchet :-) Thanks again.

I believe BJ may have missed seeing what you may be asking about because you forgot to mention what kind of a problem your coin had. I can see something in the photos that looks like what is called a railroad rim . this happens when part of a planchet is outside of the collar when struck. Then I seen your last photo and it appears to have had something hit the top of the rim of the coin and may have pushed the rim down. This will cause the same looking effect as the mint done railroad rims. Either way if this is a railroad rim coin it would not be worth a lot. I'm not sure if this is the problem you was asking about but it is all I can see.

[ikandiggit]

Any possibility of it once being encased like in a bezel for a keychain?

[pennycat]

I had seen some of the railroad error most of them you can see a line in the middle of the edge and not even but this one is smooth and concave. Also the sides from the beads are expaned to the rims then made the rims much thiner then normal. Thanks.

[wavysteps]

This is not a railroad rim. The coin is noticeable small in circumference and that is in the last picture shown on the first post.

An upset mill will not touch the middle of the coin and it will affect the edge. Basically, the coin or blank goes through a decreasing size slot which is driven by a rotating wheel that in turn rotates the coin or blank. That wheel only touches the edge of the coin or blank.

There is one cruder way of doing it and that is by using a spoon or light, small hammer and constantly hitting the edge of the coin or blank while rotating the coin or blank un your fingers. A lot of G.I.s did this in WW II with silver coins, fashioning rings for their loved ones back home. I know, for I have a set made by my father.

[jcuve]

I agree with BJ: PSD and it is not a partial collar (railroad rim).

I have to add that just because an immediate, agreed upon and clear explanation of how a coin was damaged outside the Mint, does not inherently give evidence that it is instead a Mint error. In many cases of PSD (PMD) the exact how or why may not be determined and really does not need to be determined.

Why?

Because any attempt to explain a coin as a Mint error must be made on the terms in which it was created AT the Mint, during some aspect of the minting process. Nothing else works.

[pennycat]

"the exact how or why may not be determined and really does not need to be determined."
I am not really agree ! Why are we keep searching, keep looking, keep asking?
Why? because we want to know what was happened and try to know more of the true. I understand what BJ said. I did try. I could made the concave edge and raising the rim but not thinner the rims from inside the coin. We may never know why?
Thank you!

[jcuve]

I only think the "why" in regards to Mint errors and the minting process is important. The "why" regarding damage, just often cannot be explained and is futile with variables encountered after the coin was struck. If you can rule out the coin in question as a Mint error, that should be enough...

Keep up the hunt!

[rascal]

You sure have started quite a mystery with this cent coin . I love these coin mysterys . This one looks about impossible to confirm either way to be a mint error or post mint damage. I can think of a few ways this could have happened at the mint or outside the mint but it would definately be hard to prove without studying the coin quite a bit. Here's one idea I came up with.

Maybe the planchet was cut out too small in diameter and it fit too loose in the collar then the outer edge of the coin die pushed the edge of the rim over when it struck the coin . I'm thinking this because both sides of the coins rim looks to be done this way.

This is just a guess by me because I'm not sure what happened to the coin.The owner of the coin has said the coin was the same weight and diameter of a normal coin so the edge of the coin was probably not squeezed in unless only the center part of the edge got pushed in and this still would not account for the thin razor looking rims.

I doubt that this coin would be worth a lot regardless of what happened to it but it does make a good conversation item.

[diamond]

You describe the edge of your coin as having a concave vertical cross-sectional profile. This bit of information alone indicates the coin was altered outside the Mint. No collar can produce this kind of cross-sectional profile. Concave edges are, however, typical of coins that were once encased in a surrounding ring that carried an advertising slogan or some other message.

You say you measured the coin's diameter. Did you use a high-precision spreading caliper or a digital micrometer? Did you apply it to obverse half and reverse half of the edge independently? If not, then your claim that its diameter is the same as a normal cent is unconvincing.

[eddiespin]

If the "why" is important to you that concave edge looks to me like that of an encased coin. That coin was encased in some kind of holder, would be my guess. I've seen many, and still have several, Lincoln cents that show that same concave edge. Much of the time the rim will have also been "flattened out," but, that's by no means requisite to these. Basically the PMD would be dictated by precisely how the coin was held.

[pennycat]

I am not trying to say an apple is an orange. I just one of the nosy guy in this
group. I believed most of us can tell most of the common errors. If a coin had been tooled or altered we can also tell as well! No matter how good the work was done. I can not tell this was the error from the mint but I can't tell how can they did it either? That is the reason I post the coin to share with the group.
Just like (jcuve) said "If you can rule out the coin in question as a Mint error, that should be enough..." Attached few more images:
Thanks again for all the responded. G=1/10mm

[19Lyds]

Rolled and then flattened though normal usage.

I think that once its understood that a coin is not a minting error then the questions should really stop since nothing can be proven and even IF something is proven, its only proving PMD and does not add value or collectible worth to the coin.

There must be 100's if not 1,000's of different ways to modify or alter a coin but determining and knowing each one simply appears to be a waste of time since its obvious that its NOT a minting error.

Just understand that regardless of what is surmised, its Post Mint Damage and anytime spent determining what caused the damage, is simply free time and takes away from finding and examining true minting errors.