1964 dime DDR

[Willymac]

I had another one which folks say is MD because hte pics look flat, they are not, but I will move on...

What do folks think about this one?

I tried to get some at angles - check the left flower base, and the letters in one dime...

[ikandiggit]

From the pics, it looks like MD.

[coin-crazy]

Im not sure until there are better pics!!

Mikee

[Willymac]

How about these pics

Please look at all the raised areas here...this coin is in MS state no doubt...

Im not sure until there are better pics!!

Mikee

[coin-crazy]

Please look at all the raised areas here...this coin is in MS state no doubt...

Ok,its clear now this coin has a common case of machine doubling.Its very common man, sorry!!

Mikee

[Willymac]

Confused - There is nothing flat about this

Ok,its clear now this coin has a common case of machine doubling.Its very common man, sorry!!

Mikee

Look at the t and a in states....there are multiple levels even on top of the letters....in the n in one you can see the line on the base and a split akin the top...the two lines overlap at different heights....

What an I missing?

Thanks a ton for your help and patience with me here....

[Merlin8971]

I am going to ask a question that has been bugging me since I first was told a coin was "Machine Doubled."

I understand (probably incompletely) that when the die is able to "wobble" during the strike that the die can shift right at the point the metal is plasticized from the pressure of coining. This shift is the cause of "machine doubling." I understand the die could rotate in ANY OF THE THREE AXIS's, horizontal, verticle, and rotational axis or even multiple axis's.

However, since a die is a one piece item, how is it possible to shift one letter but NOT the letter right next to it? Then again, if the die is shifting these letters causing a "false" doubling, WHY does the rest of the surface NOT have "machine doubling" characteristics?

For example, the Washington quarters seems to have numerous "machine doubling" of "In God We Trust." Most of these "machine doubled" quarters RARELY have all letters of IGWT doubled. Many times the "I" or the "N" displays doubling, BUT 80% DO NOT have both letters doubled. "GOD" usually has one, two, or all three letters doubled, but it seems these three combinations of letter doubles are equally found (one letter, two letters, or three letters doubled). "WE" RARELY has both letters doubled and "TRUST" has ANY NUMBER of letters doubled from only one letter doubled to all five letters doubled.

What really confuses me in this so-called "machine doubling" NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING else is doubled in any way on the obverse of the quarter. HOW IS THIS PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE???? If the die shifts at the plasticized state of the metal, ALL details should shift.... in my way of thinking. It is also very curious to me that this "machine doubling" of quarters "In God We Trust" seems semi-common while the rest of the obverse is NOT doubled. I have found a fair number of quarters with the Date also doubled and some with the Date and Mintmark doubled, but Liberty is NOT DOUBLED nor is the bust of Washington doubled.

Curiously, in the "Strike It Rich..." third edition, there is a photo of a 1967 Roosevelt dime on page 167 (middle photo) that looks EXACTLY like many of the quarter IGWT "machine doubling," yet this IS a "Doubled Die" Breen#-3765, Cherrypickers: FS-019, Coneca: DDO-001, Potter VCR#1/DDO#1, Wexler: WDDO-001. In this photo, the "I" looks doubled, but NOT the "N," the "G," "O," "D" are all doubled, "WE" looks like little doubling is present, "TRUST" is boldly doubled. My point is, if the dime is a Doubled Die then why wouldn't the IGWT on quarters NOT be "Doubled Dies" but rather "Machine Doubling."

Yes, I am aware of the so-called flat shelf of "machine doubling" and the separation of the serifs in Doubled Dies. The Roosevelt Dime photos referred to above shows little or NO serif separation. and it is almost impossible to detect whether the "shelf" is flat or not. None of the letters of "GOD" appear to show any serif separation. Particularly note the two "T's" of Trust and the "S" in Trust. There appears to be NO serif separation. I would venture to say none of the letters show serif separation.

Of course, then there is the idea that "machine doubling" is somehow completely different and worthless, EVEN THOUGH IT IS DONE AT THE MINT WHEN STRIKING THE COIN. But, if the die was struck twice when originally made (A DOUBLED DIE), the Die itself HAD TO HAVE SHIFTED between the first and second strike (to me THE EXACT SAME PHENONOMON that causes machine doubling) Oddly enough, the "Doubled die" would make MORE error coins than "Machine Doubled" coins IF the operator corrects the machine doubling shifts as they occur or are noticed.

Excuse my skepticism (and possibly my inexperience), but it seems that when the coin is owned by an expert it is a "Doubled Die" but when it is discovered by a novice, it is "Machine Doubled." Another example can be seen in VAM's of Morgan dollars. I was at PCGS's site and looked at an article on VAM Morgan Dollars. PCGS is aware of a number of VAM's that PCGS WILL NOT attribute. How does a company like PCGS get to declare which VAM's are valuable and which VAM's are not recognized? To me, VAMs all must meet the criteria of the definition of VAMs and the value should be based upon population rarity, NOT that PCGS can ignore some VAMs and recognize others. I can understand that there may be VAMs out there that are quite common and may have little added value, BUT to ignore these VAMs altogether seems to be irrational.

I hope an expert on this site can discuss these questions I have.

P.S. It REALLY ticks me off that as I write a discussion like this one that when I go to post it, I AM REQUIRED TO RE-LOG IN loosing the entire written window I just spend this time on. Luckily I copy the text so that I do not loose it. BUT it still REALLY TICKS ME OFF.