2023 P Jefferson Nickel Die Clash with/without strange looking Eyebrow to Rim anomaly

[OneCent]

These cool error coins surprised me after finding this strange anomaly of the same size raised through Thomas Jefferson's home of MONTICELLO going from NNW at the top of the dome through the doorway to SSW at the bottom of the steps. I am thinking it may be a damaged die since it doesn't match anything that would make a clash mark. I have not yet measured to see if it is the same size on both coins. These were found together in the same set of bank rolls. The clashed die coins seem to have the same clash marks obverse and reverse and seem to be from the same die, but one coin has this protrusion. Does anybody know if this new design element is created by something "sticking to the die," or just a later die state? More pics coming. IMG_5072(1).JPG IMG_5008(1).JPG IMG_5013(1).JPG

[lionmc13]

Both coins look like hubbed-in debris to me. The lines often look similar in width and depth because the same type of debris tends to get hubbed-in, such as bristles from wire brushes. Finding the two coins in the same set of bank rolls is a little surprising, but I don't think they are related to each other.

[occnumis2021]

this one looks like clashing to me. not sure what to make of the long lines. i'll defer to what others say for those.

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[OneCent]

Yes it is definitely clashed dies, not quite the full eye, but parts of both. While only seeing designer initials die pitting on both, I have now discovered a dot on the hair near the cheek. This would confirm being the same Obverse die. Let me know if you agree. The long line from rim to eye is approximately 8 cm and is squared off under the eyebrow. This line is totally missing from the other clashed die coin. The picture is taken through the flip as not to damage the coin. The non clashed coin reverse line though MONTiCELLO is approximately 9 cm. I am sorry this has referenced 3 different coins. I have discussed all because they are related in someways.
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[OneCent]

Thanks Lionmc13. I appreciate your input and like how you added the link to Error-Ref in the words Hubbed-In Debris. Here is a couple of pictures of what is on the Obverse of the Later Stage Clashed Die. One end is squared off while the other fades at the rim.

[occnumis2021]

saw this n thought of this thread.

https://www.error-ref.com/?s=corrosion

[OneCent]

Hi occnumis2021, I checked that out and is interesting, but I have found more than one of each. I should have out in the post and also streaks in the field on others. I was thinking it was a type of die dent of sorts. Thanks for info!

[occnumis2021]

Hi occnumis2021, I checked that out and is interesting, but I have found more than one of each. I should have out in the post and also streaks in the field on others. I was thinking it was a type of die dent of sorts. Thanks for info!

you did see the hubbed-in debris link above? your coins looks precisely like that effect.

[OneCent]

you did see the hubbed-in debris link above? your coins looks precisely like that effect.

I agree that it was something foreign hubbed into the die which struck some planchets until one was examined and the die retired or continued to run. The corrosion link was about damage of the planchet. I thought on the lines of die damage dent at first but this is still unintentional and a mint workers sloppiness in the making of the die. In my mind this is kinda like a struck through object, but only on the working die. Would anyone know the amount of nickels, one die can produce before being retired? I totally agree this is the case with what looks like a Hidden Cross Beam through MONTICELLO. Now I would like to find out why one CLASHED DIE NICKEL has the hubbed in debis while the other with the same die marker and clash marks does not, pictured in post #4? New thoughts?

[occnumis2021]

i don't see the "hubbed debris" in image #2 here but i do see the clash. on image 3, i see the debris but not the clash.

does image #2 have the hubbed debris? the image is over-exposed and i cannot see it.

aside from that, once you study coins in-depth and accurately for a long time, you will see MANY instances of coins have some same features and some not, consistent and inconsistent. just the way it goes. you can see swapped dies, repolished, reworked, rehubbed and tons of stuff. there will be inconsistencies, varieances, freakin' paradoxes if you will. just the name of the game. nothing wrong with studying and seeking answers but the answers don't always come easy.

i presume the hubbed debris made a LOT of coins. during this run, there can be more than one clash instance, counter-clashing, polishing etc. if you had every single coin struck with the hubbed debris. you could probably find where a die was swapped eventually so that one side has it and the other didn't.

for me, i don't know much about hubbed debris but it seems pretty straight-forward. i'm only calling it that since it looks like an exact match and i don't have any better theories/experience.

i don't think this situation is complicated (compared to what i'm used to). fwiw

[OneCent]

Hi Occnumis2021. To answer your question..pictures 1 and 2 obv & rev are the same coin with the die clash and hubbed in obverse. I have another coin with the same die clash without the hubbed in debris on the obverse. Both coins seem to be struck with the same die pair having same die markers on both obv and rev. I brought a couple three pair out of the darkness and into the light. Thinking now that maybe the hubbed in debris faded away after many strikes. The Monticello reverse with the HID is another example. Here is another picture or two of HID on other coins. Thanks again for your time!

[OneCent]

Both coins look like hubbed-in debris to me. The lines often look similar in width and depth because the same type of debris tends to get hubbed-in, such as bristles from wire brushes. Finding the two coins in the same set of bank rolls is a little surprising, but I don't think they are related to each other.

I have recently discovered that these two coins have Doubled Die Reverses, one is the WDDR-036 "Best of"nickel Doubled Dies. They both have like die markers with and without the Hubbed In or Die Dent anomaly.I am more leaning on that this is a die dent and happened after the die was made and after striking some coins. I am still learning and this is just my opinion. Can anyone agree or add to this?