1964D DDR? Lots of pics.

[jstraw13]

I believe this may be DDR-005? I am new to the Jefferson varieties, would someone be able to explain the difference between the light, medium and strong spread. What is the best way to determine which is which? Thanks very much.

[wavysteps]

I may be wrong, but I do not believe this is hub doubling. What is seen is a radial pattern of doubling mostly associated with die deterioration doubling. "Yes", die deterioration doubling will form notches on the serifs of design elements.

BJ Neff

[atrox001]

I think your are on the right track…it certainly meets the description for the 5c 64D DDR-005-LDS, especially the marker with the northeast die scratches through the MO of MONTECLLO. I think the best way to determine the strength of spread…strong, medium, or light is to look at a lot of doubled dies and photos till you see it…in other words experience. I think your nickel is a LDS medium spread. Those are some very nice photos of your reverse.

Larry Nienaber

[mustbebob]

I am tending to agree with wavysteps on this one. I don't see the type of notching one would associate with true hub doubling. Although the examples below are of a stronger doubled die, this shows you what the doubling would look like on most Jefferson nickels.

[jstraw13]

Thanks everyone, thought I may have had one based on the the die scratches through the M and O and what appeared to be doubling on the last O.

[atrox001]

Thanks everyone, thought I may have had one based on the the die scratches through the M and O and what appeared to be doubling on the last O.

I think you do have one...it would be nice to see some other opinions.

Larry Nienaber

[mustbebob]

I'm sorry Larry. I think the doubling that is prevalent on this coin is die deterioration. I guess it is possible I am missing something, but as the pics I loaded last time show, this die does not show what I would consider normal hub doubling. If you can point out to me what exactly you are seeing that makes you believe it is a doubled die, I will certainly have a closer look. I have been wrong before.

[atrox001]

Since this is a LDS could this nickel have some die deterioration of a doubled die…reference the STATES photo notching, or both building edges, or the extra thickness on EPU? The description for the 64D DDR-005 is…Medium spread and extra thickness on E PLURIBUS UNUM, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, FIVE CENTS, M and last O of MONTICELLO, and both building edges.

The Stage C marker for the DDR-005 is…strong die scratches Northeast through MO of MONTICELLO – LDS. What are the odds of seeing northeast die scratches through the MO of MONTECELLO on a different 64D reverse die?

Larry Nienaber

[wavysteps]

Hi Larry - one of the inadequacies of word descriptions is that it leaves a lot to the imagination. In this case it may just be what we are looking at.

The tell-tail feature of this doubling is that the spread is radial which only happens in a Class II or VI doubled die and then, not to the extent of this doubling. Another feature that leads me to believe that this die deterioration doubling is that the notching should be mushy at this stage, which it is not. In die deterioration doubling, the notching becomes stronger and more defined with age.

As to have two dies with die scratches in the same direction? It happens a lot, especially on Lincoln cents.

BJ Neff

[jstraw13]

What about the last O in Monticello?

[wavysteps]

That appears to have doubling, however, it may be the machine type. If you will notice that the direction of the doubling does not fit the direction of the other apparent doubling. This is another red flag that indicates we are not dealing with hub doubling..

BJ Neff

[mustbebob]

I guess the next question is 'Does anyone have a 64D DDR-005 that we can compare this with?' Does anyone know where pictures of it might be? Unless there is someone else, then the only attribution authority here who could positively ID this thing would be Dr. Wiles.

[jstraw13]

While pictures would be great to compare and although the coin seems to coincide with the description of the DDR-005, I am beginning to think this IS die deterioration doubling. The doubling I am seeing on the coin is raised, but does not have the rounded appearance of hub doubling as shown in the pictures Bob provided. Hopefully someone has some pictures...

Thank you guys very much for following the thread, I really appreciate your comments/opinions. Knowledge is key and I'm trying to absorb as much as possible.

[JamesWiles]

I would not give up on this one so fast. There are several 64D DDRs with this look. This one will need an in hand examination to tell for sure.