1985-D 5c Jefferson Nickel DDO / DDR ???

[Novicetoerr]

Hello ALL again,

Using 3cnicker's very nice Jefferson Nickel MDD complimentary reference coin, positively ID'ed this 1985 nickel as doubled die. Unsure though, if old story or a good find.

Happy to hear comments if we ID'ed correctly or a good find.

Thank you and good night to all.
NVTEs

[mustbebob]

I don't believe your coin to be a doubled die. It looks like die deterioration to me. I have a few photos below of the type of doubling most often seen on a 5 cent doubled die reverse. Compare it with your coin, and you will see the differences....OK?

[Novicetoerr]

Thanks Bob!

Wow, those are nice doublings! What year is the coin?
And just for further confirmation for us NVTEs, our coin is a still doubled die
and not machine doubling, right?

Thank you,
NVTEs

[diamond]

Your coin is not a doubled die, novicetoerr. It's a case of die deterioration doubling, as Bob said.

[Novicetoerr]

Hello,

Oppppsssss, just to clarify among us co-NVTEs...Understood they are not the std and collectible hub doublings. What we really meant was, they are not machine/double or mult. struck doublings, but still created by the die itself (deteriorated or overpolished) in a single strike<--- Have we stated it correctly?

Thank you again,
NVTEs

[diamond]

Die deterioration doubling is present on the die, so yes, it's created in a single strike without any jitter. The DDD in your specimen is extremely subtle. DDD can be far more dramatic.

As for polishing being the cause of doubling, that's highly questionable. The entire category of "abraded die doubling" is largely a myth. The vast majority of claimed examples are simply DDD.

[Novicetoerr]

Good morning Mike!

Thank you again for the additional info and clarification. Will remove
abraded die doubling from our cheat sheets.

Us NVTE's stayed 'til early this morning due to a very interesting old Lincoln cent find. Been looking and looking and discussing. One NVTE will post this morning.

NVTEs

[mustbebob]

To answer your question Novicetoerr, the coin I photographed and left the pictures of was dated 1962. The doubling as seen on it is true hub doubling, and most Jefferson nickels with a doubled die reverse will show the notching and/or separation to some degree like this one. The importance is recognizing what you need to look for. There are many classes of doubling, but it is important to differentiate between true 'Hub' doubling, and the other doubling that occurs during striking and/or ejection. The only one with considerable value is the hub doubled dies. You have found one on the 1982 cent, so now you should be on the right track.

[3˘nicker]

i will admit that the machine doubled coin may be considered mislabled as i see machine doubling and die dertierioraton doubling in the same realm. but i guess they are two separate things.

machine doubling happens during striking- when the die hits it can bounce off the surface and land again making the sharp flat shelflike doubling of design

die deterioration doubling- happens over time due to the long like of that die striking over and over again the surface gets worn and themetal flow acts like a river eroding parts of the die. that makes the spread of (commonly) the letters toward the rim

my apologies for the confusion, hopefully the previous stated clears everything up. if i am wrong the others i'm sure can help me out on this

[Novicetoerr]

Hello and thank you all for the further clarifications.

Last (probably dumb ) clarification we have is, will DDD exhibit similar notchings or serif separations as with the true hub doublings?

Regards and Thank you.
NVTEs

[3˘nicker]

DDD's generally do not show the separation and notching like you are asking. the real only way i see that happening is if a true hub doubled die ends up lasting a long enough time that DDD starts happening but i do not recall a die that exhibits both

[diamond]

Hello and thank you all for the further clarifications.

Last (probably dumb ) clarification we have is, will DDD exhibit similar notchings or serif separations as with the true hub doublings?

Regards and Thank you.
NVTEs

No. No notching, no split serifs, no furrowing of design elements.

[Novicetoerr]

Thankyou ALL and regards,
NVTEs