Shield Nickel Woes... please help

[No_Ragrets]

1866 Shield 5C Obv 52MP zoomed(bottom)(resized).jpg 1866 Shield 5C Obv 52MP zoomed(top)(resized).jpg 1866 Shield 5C Obv 52MP zoomed(center)(resized).jpg 1866 Shield 5C Obv 52MP(resized).jpg 1866 Shield 5C Rev 52MP zoomed(center)(resized).jpg 1866 Shield 5C Rev 52MP(1)(resized).jpg Hello everyone! I hope you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving. I am posting here again because I am having trouble identifying the particular variety of one (of four) new coins I purchased a couple of days ago. I've referenced the majority of material I've found online, be it PCGS, NGC, or any other non-TPG sites, and have yet to determine a specific variety.

The coin in question today is an 1866 shield nickel, which is showing a RPD, as well as a DDO as there is doubling showing throughout the shield, leaves, and motto. I'm not sure if this is rotated hub doubling or not, as the doubling does not stay consistent across every aspect of the coin. The reverse is showing doubling on at least one star (by the "e" in cents) but potentially more. I will need to put this back under my scope and take more in-depth pictures tomorrow, but I thought I would reach out tonight to see if anyone here has any knowledge or additional experience with shield nickels they would like to share because I have just finally gotten my first shield worthy of a deeper look. This will 100% end up in my type set album, but I would like to log the particular variety prior to doing so.

As always, any helpful information would be fantastic and I am never opposed to hearing differing opinions. Likewise, please feel free to ask any questions or request additional photos and I will be happy to help as best as I can. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to hearing your opinions!

[foxpigsquid]

Check out SNV (https://www.shieldnickels.net/snv/snv.html). I'm in a similar boat - trying to identify varieties on a few shields myself. Howard was quick to respond to my inquiry about licensing but I've yet to pull the trigger on the purchase. Not sure the few I have are worth the cost of attribution but the sheer variety he has cataloged is impressive.

[hspindel]

No_Ragrets All of the doubling visible in your photos is strike doubling only - no RPD and no DDO.

[hspindel]

Check out SNV (https://www.shieldnickels.net/snv/snv.html). I'm in a similar boat - trying to identify varieties on a few shields myself. Howard was quick to respond to my inquiry about licensing but I've yet to pull the trigger on the purchase. Not sure the few I have are worth the cost of attribution but the sheer variety he has cataloged is impressive.

If you only have a couple nickels to attribute I'd be happy to do that for you at no charge. Send enlarged photos to the same email address you sent the SNV inquiry to.

[No_Ragrets]

No_Ragrets All of the doubling visible in your photos is strike doubling only - no RPD and no DDO.

I'm going to have to take a much closer look tomorrow at this coin, but your reply would explain why I can't find anything online that matches what I have here. The reverse rays (star, actually) may very well be it's own variety, but I'll deal with that after ruling out the obverse. Thanks for your help!

[occnumis2021]

If you only have a couple nickels to attribute I'd be happy to do that for you at no charge. Send enlarged photos to the same email address you sent the SNV inquiry to.

ha. neat. howard posted!

class act doing some pro-bono too!

[MintErrors]

I like shield nickels. A few years ago, I bought one that's an 1866 Fletcher 12. It's a dramatic repunched date. It's what I am using as my avatar. I have several references for shield nickels.

It's good to see Howard stopping by and offering his opinion. He's got a spreadsheet on his website that's a pdf on shield nickel varieties that will make your head spin. A lot of time went into that website, and it is much appreciated.

[No_Ragrets]

No_Ragrets All of the doubling visible in your photos is strike doubling only - no RPD and no DDO.

I was able to get a closer look at this yesterday and tried to sift through more of NGS's listed varieties. The closest I can guess would be their VP-008 listing which shows lathe lines running through the shield area. Unfortunately, the pictures I've found so far do not show the date or the reverse, which I am still curious about. The date is still intriguing me, as it is very odd-looking with whatever is going on there. Here's some of the updated pictures from yesterday.

I'm still relatively new to the hobby so please forgive me if these questions have been asked a million times before. I try my best to find information on my own and that seems to work relatively well for the majority of the time, but every now and then I think it's better to get advice from the experts who have far more knowledge and experience than myself when I run into a roadblock and start grasping at straws.


1866 5C Obv 52MP Zoomed Date(resized).jpg 1866 5C Obv 52MP Zoomed Date(1)(Resized).jpg 1866 5C Rev 52MP Zoomed Star E(resized).jpg 1866 5C Obv 52MP Zoomed Shield Lathe Line(resized).jpg

[occnumis2021]

I was able to get a closer look at this yesterday and tried to sift through more of NGS's listed varieties. The closest I can guess would be their VP-008 listing which shows lathe lines running through the shield area. Unfortunately, the pictures I've found so far do not show the date or the reverse, which I am still curious about. The date is still intriguing me, as it is very odd-looking with whatever is going on there. Here's some of the updated pictures from yesterday.

I'm still relatively new to the hobby so please forgive me if these questions have been asked a million times before. I try my best to find information on my own and that seems to work relatively well for the majority of the time, but every now and then I think it's better to get advice from the experts who have far more knowledge and experience than myself when I run into a roadblock and start grasping at straws.

neat lathe lines. i didn't comment earlier.

also nice DDR and great pics!

feel free to use various sites to try and attribute these but if you aren't using a reference guide, you are just doing yourself a disservice and so much extra work usually for nothing mostly because there are just so many of these varieties, only a reference guide will allow you to find all the coins you search whereas a lesser option could have you searching for hours only to find they don't list the one you have AND if you have a new one, w/o using a ref guide, you will never know.

while hspindel made the offer to foxpigsquid and not you about doing a couple for free (i think), you can ask if he can help you with a couple OR just offer to pay, it isn't very expensive imo from what i remember and can save hours at least until you get to the point you have ref guides and/or more experience and may even lead to a discovery. ya never know.

your coin exhibits clear and very strong MD as well. the 1 in the date esp really looks like ejection doubling where the metal is pushed as the coin is being ejected (not that i recall the mechanisms used during this period of coining).

there is an option for someone SUPER dedicated to the cause but takes a certain personality to do it. you can create a new folder on your desktop and start grabbing images from ebay, auciton houses, various sites, search engine (for images) and organize them yourself. i've done several times cause i wanted high-res color images and is very doable, esp if you look up collections that have sold where they are sold by marriage NOT that i'm discouraging books/pdfs as i had a bunch of those as well.

[No_Ragrets]

neat lathe lines. i didn't comment earlier.

also nice DDR and great pics!

feel free to use various sites to try and attribute these but if you aren't using a reference guide, you are just doing yourself a disservice and so much extra work usually for nothing mostly because there are just so many of these varieties, only a reference guide will allow you to find all the coins you search whereas a lesser option could have you searching for hours only to find they don't list the one you have AND if you have a new one, w/o using a ref guide, you will never know.

while hspindel made the offer to foxpigsquid and not you about doing a couple for free (i think), you can ask if he can help you with a couple OR just offer to pay, it isn't very expensive imo from what i remember and can save hours at least until you get to the point you have ref guides and/or more experience and may even lead to a discovery. ya never know.

your coin exhibits clear and very strong MD as well. the 1 in the date esp really looks like ejection doubling where the metal is pushed as the coin is being ejected (not that i recall the mechanisms used during this period of coining).

there is an option for someone SUPER dedicated to the cause but takes a certain personality to do it. you can create a new folder on your desktop and start grabbing images from ebay, auciton houses, various sites, search engine (for images) and organize them yourself. i've done several times cause i wanted high-res color images and is very doable, esp if you look up collections that have sold where they are sold by marriage NOT that i'm discouraging books/pdfs as i had a bunch of those as well.

I had actually recently started with compiling photos from the web (just for personal use of comparing to my collection) and storing them in my external hard drive. So far, I have only captured a handful of Morgan dollar pictures as that is my current main focus, but I will be starting to create additional sub-folders for different types in the near future. In the meantime, I've got several Excel spreadsheets that I use to track my albums but that can be a bit tedious at times especially when I get an upgrade for any particular slot.

I'm not opposed to getting books on individual subject matters for researching, but I would prefer something more along the lines of several types included in one book. I currently have the Mega Redbook (a Christmas gift from last year) which is great for a little information about a lot of coins, but it just doesn't get down into the nitty-gritty details on each coin. And that thing is massive! I also have a difficult time trying to stomach buying any book for more than around $50. I guess I'm just cheap sometimes lol!

I tried looking up the specific minting process from the 1860's but didn't find very much that was helpful. I'm probably just looking in the wrong places or typing the wrong search terms. The hunt for information never ends here!

Thank you again (and everyone else, too) for all of your help!

[occnumis2021]

Thank you again (and everyone else, too) for all of your help!

yw.

nj on starting a person reference database.

ya, the mega red is pretty nifty and the pro redbook was/is decent as well but ALSO the good ol little annual red book is quite snazzy for $10-20 even though just picking one up ever few years is really all that is needed.

there is no compendium of a lot or all series with marriges, states etc. although if there were one with all vams, sheldons, fivas-stantons etc , it'd be worth $1k to me but would be several volumes and we technically already have that by buying individual books although they are more for reading than pics these days.

getting any recent volume for a full marriage/diagnostic/commentary for less than $50 won't be easy but a few here n there pop up over the years.

there are a few publications that tap into the various minting process since 1792 +/-.

roger burdette - from mine to mint covers the processes (which are different throughout the decades/centuries.

van allen and mallis have book(s) out that SHOULD cover some of that as well.

q. david bowers has a couple/few

the NNP has book online as well as the internet archives. the ana (if you have a membership) loans books out last i checked.

edited to add:

http://wiki.coinbooks.org/index.php/...:United_States

https://www.pcgs.com/books

https://books.google.com/books?id=Rz...cover#v=onepag e&q&f=false

[MintErrors]

For Morgan Dollars (and Peace) the VAM encyclopedia is a good book to have. I bought one, it ended up getting g some water damage, so I ripped out the pages and scanned them in. I put it on this tablet, so I can carry it to where ever I want, and have a handy reference of a dozen books or so. I cannot put myself up to ripping up the Fletcher Shield Nickel book. It's paperback version and thosego for some serious moola. I was extremely lucky getting one, and it cost less than a Ben Franklin.

Howard Spindel can answer your questions, and if you want, tell us what you found out about the other Shield Nickels.

[hspindel]

[QUOTE=No_Ragrets;n113833]

I was able to get a closer look at this yesterday and tried to sift through more of NGS's listed varieties. The closest I can guess would be their VP-008 listing which shows lathe lines running through the shield area. Unfortunately, the pictures I've found so far do not show the date or the reverse, which I am still curious about. The date is still intriguing me, as it is very odd-looking with whatever is going on there. Here's some of the updated pictures from yesterday.

/QUOTE]

With your better photos, I am able to verify an RPD 866 north with a clockwise tilt, strongest on the 8. I do not see this RPD listed anywhere. If you are capable of taking photos as specified in the following link, I would be happy to list it and assign an SNV number. There is a fair amount of strike doubling on the coin, which is not unusual.

http://www.shieldnickels.net/snv4/manual/ShieldNickelViewer.html

The obverse does show lathe lines. I have catalogued a couple of 1866 with lathe lines, but not this one.

As far as the reverse is concerned, that is not a DDR. The doubling you see is present in the master hub, so every 1866 shows it.

[hspindel]

while hspindel made the offer to foxpigsquid and not you about doing a couple for free (i think), you can ask if he can help you with a couple OR just offer to pay,

I am typically happy to attribute a coin or two at no charge, especially if it results in adding a new variety to the database as would be the case with the OP's coin.

[hspindel]

I'm not opposed to getting books on individual subject matters for researching, but I would prefer something more along the lines of several types included in one book.

For shield nickels, the number of varieties is so large that any coin book that covers multiple series cannot hope to do justice to shield nickels.

The best print book for shield nickels is Fletcher's, but it has been OOP for years and is expensive if you can even find it. My SNV covers many more varieties than Fletcher, and provides much better photos than Fletcher. SNV is a computer program, not a printed book. (Not intended as a commercial to entice buyers, just general info. On a yearly basis my expenses for maintaining shield nickel info exceed anything I might get from SNV buyers, but I am happy to continue as a service to the numismatic community.)