2007P J. Adams $1 Double Edge inverted leters

[Shleppodella1]

I hope I got this in the right place because missing edge letters is a variety correct ( i.e., RPM, DDO/DDR, MPD, OMM?) And Errors are (O/C, Broadstruck, Die cap). I'm making a list now were these go so I quite getting it wrong.


The label obviously tells the error type but how not how this coin got made. How can it go thru and get the collar to strike the edge lettering and the hammer and anvil to do obv and rev at the same time on the original run and then get flipped over to get the collar only restamped in position B and NOT get a double strike? Doesn't the coin have to leave the striking chamber to have this "invert" occur from position "A" to "B"?

It's my understanding that this is a less common error for these as the missing edge letters is more common so that's why I'm asking or is my info wrong?

[MintErrors]

Most websites I have read say conflicting things about the edge lettering. In my opinion, it's pretty common for most issues. The edge lettering issue flood some auction houses. I remember seeing close to 40 of them in one auction and they went for way less than it cost to slab a one coin submission.

I cannot speak for where this should go within the forum. It's not a variety, and many websites say edge lettering is not an error. But one would think if one set of lettering is upside down and another on the same coin is the opposite direction, it would be considered an error ?

I personally have never collected these, so all I can do is shrug my shoulders and do a simple web search and immediately found :

http://www.smalldollars.com/dollar/page33.html

[MintErrors]

The addition of the writing above, this is food for thought. It may not be technically correct nor accepted in collectors eyes. But, I offer the head scratching possibilities, in relation to a process we accept or the technical jargon intertwined with law:

In my opinion, I don't know what to think of this process on edge lettering. In technical terms, if a coin does not have edge lettering and it should contain a date and mintmark, is it technically considered a dateless coin, or a medal or commemorative? Sure I understand through a thought process it's a valid US coin, but by law (description of what the coin will look like) it does not meet that standard.

The mint offered a "release" which explains their, errrrrr, issue. I think they may have sent it out to squelch any outcries or concerns. Was it meant to simply be an apology, admission of guilt, a message stating that yes, these coins were produced by us and they are authentic or other reason? I think it was a good move. This way collectors and people in general know these coins are the real deal and not manufactured elsewhere.

In a head scratching note...does double edge lettering fester a technical mention of doubling ? Many may know where I am heading. Double edge lettering is what it is, but involves the date and mintmark. If that is typically doubled on any other coin (minus, say some Sacagawea coins) that's called a doubled die. And then, if the edge lettering is doubled and its backwards.... geeze the name scratching possilities are interesting.

Then you have the difference between the rollers doing double duty and the proof version of the coin having it added when the proof coin is struck... that gets more confusing on the technicality side of doubled die something or double struck something.

Let's throw this "techn-illogical" nonesense in the same heap with calling a single squeezed working die, which chattered somehow under pressure, a doubled die. Technically that's not right either.

Edge lettering to me is simply too small and to me, is a design feature which is not appealing to me. It is one type of denomination that kind of educates a person to either find the date on the coin or, research the design properties and let others tell you the date. Your may be on your own if the coin contains or should contain a mint mark.

No need to reply to this post about the head scratching possibilities. I personally know that these issues are accepted for what they currently are perceived as and the world seems to be fine with that. The possibilities are many. I don't want anyone setting off any mind fuses.

Enjoy your holiday season.

[Shleppodella1]

Thanks for the article link Gary. It states that this particular error is supposed to be a 1-off due to the edge lettering being applied after the obv/rev strike in like a upsetting mill procedure which I thought was done all at once so thanks for showing me how to answer my question (love your technique by the way) and the mint supposedly took steps so this doesn’t happen again. Ya right we'll see.
This is definitely a new area for me as well.

[MintErrors]

For a visual, here is what a upset mill looks like:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TCI16hXpRQk

I am sure the machine that adds the edge lettering is much smaller.
An after thought about a coin that receives one more pass through the machine that produces the edge lettering some how gets tipped over and had the opportunity to go through a second time. It's difficult to guess what happened, unless some one picks a coin off the floor and tosses it I to what they believe is the right bin or hopper. They handle billions of coins a year, things are bound to go amuck every once in a while. As Bob used to say, its the US Mint - stuff happens.

[Shleppodella1]

It is rather interesting on how this happen that for sure "it's the mint!".
IF MY SEARCH IS CORRECT the machine that the U.S. MINT uses is a Schuler RS-50 edge lettering machine it looks state of the art in case you didn't know but like mentioned new times new errors and yes, it does look considerably smaller than the upsetting machine. It even has a little coin bin in the left of picture trying so hard to belong. Also the press release stated around 80,000-100,000 estimate on these that made it out out of hundreds of millions. But then you get into price vs grading cost mathematics. I also see your point on the edge lettering idea it does seem rather wasteful time/step plus not to mention extra machinery and cost. Why mess with what works.
ThankX again for corresponding.