MOST UNUSAL CENT COIN

[rascal]

I can already hear PMD from some of you because of the uniquness of this coin. I started to throw it in the junk pile because I sould see what looked like damage before I even touched this coin. Then I decided to give it a look anyway. After closely examining the coin I'm 100% sure this is a true mint error. If this was from PMD the the reverse side of the coin would have to show some damage also . The reverse side is perfect condition.

Then this leaves the only possible way this could be PMD is for it to have been done with some type grinder and this is not possible because all of the original mint luster is still on the coin and even down in the valleys of the sunken in areas.This coin is at least MS60 condition. If the mint luster was not still present then I would have declared it PMD and threw it away.

What's everyone's opinion of what caused the coin to be this way ? My opinion is that it was struck thru a worn out coin that was stuck onto the die which is called a die cap . but I can't think of what made the sunken in valleys that goes all the way from the coins edge and completely across Lincoln's head unless it was the ejector finger or part of the collar got broke and got between the capped die and the planchet and kept sliding over between every strike because it looks like part of the collar was missing in the worst effected area.

Anyone can call this PMD all they want to but I have collected and studyied error and variety coins for at least 40 years and I'm sure this coin was done this way while it was still in the die.

If I'm remembering right someone else had a identical coin to this one on this forum not long ago and we all told him it was PMD. maybe his coin was different because I can't remember it very good.

[jcuve]

It would seem a team of ragged ruffians beset upon the destruction of pristine coin surfaces had it out for this poor old Lincoln and pounded on it for a while. I am surprised it even survived.

[wavysteps]

There is a remote possibility that this could be a struck through a late stage die cap. However, it is hard to tell from the pictures just what you have. I suggest an in hand examination by an error specialist to determine just what happen to this coin.

BJ Neff

[diamond]

This is just a horribly damaged cent.

[rascal]

It would seem a team of ragged ruffians beset upon the destruction of pristine coin surfaces had it out for this poor old Lincoln and pounded on it for a while. I am surprised it even survived.

Very funny Jason , what a reply

[rascal]

This is just a horribly damaged cent.

Mike I knew this would be the type replys I would get from my coins photos before anyone made a reply. I have probably collected error coins longer than anyone on here and I'm about 100% certain this one is not a after mint damaged coin unless you want to call a coin that came out of a set of mint dies in this condition as damaged. read my first post and look at the totally undamaged reverse side of the coin and the 100% mint luster still on the effected areas then you may want to change your mind.It is totally impossible for anyone to put the original mint luster coating back on copper coins or everyone could make any coin back to mint condition. It is very easy to call these unique things as just damaged.

[rascal]

There is a remote possibility that this could be a struck through a late stage die cap. However, it is hard to tell from the pictures just what you have. I suggest an in hand examination by an error specialist to determine just what happen to this coin.

BJ Neff

BJ your thinking is the same as mine on this coin. it looks like the die cap was so worn off that about all of it was gone. I have seen die caps where nothing was left of it except the outer ring of the coin that was once capped over the die. The only thing I can't figure out right now is what made the sunken in valleys. also there is evidence that the collar may have been broken in this area. I would never put a coin on here if I even thought it may be from PMD. I just found the coin yesterday and I will figure it out before long. If this one is proved to be a real mint error we all can learn new things from it.

[diamond]

The broad, shallow indentations in the upper left quadrant aren't anything a coinage press could produce. The coin was clearly struck in-collar, but the edge sticks out next to the indentations. That also is impossible. Finally, you'll note the presence of a thin apron of metal extending over and partly obscuring IN GOD WE TRUST. That's a common effect of post-strike damage.

[wavysteps]

Mike has pointed out some anomalies that I did overlook. While it is hard to damage a coin on just one side out side of the mint without the other side showing some affects, I believe this is the case here.

BJ Neff

[rascal]

Mike has pointed out some anomalies that I did overlook. While it is hard to damage a coin on just one side out side of the mint without the other side showing some affects, I believe this is the case here.

BJ Neff

BJ I know this coin is so unusal that it probably will never be authenticated but I still believe it is a mint error. I'm awfully good about being able to spot PMD coins and this one does look more like a real mint error.

I forgot to tell everyone that the planchet this coin was struck on was a tiny bit smaller in diameter for some reason in the worst effected area and it looks like it may have had a small clipped place in the planchet in this area before it was struck.. the damage near the rim only goes about a third of the way down on the coins edge. I put this coin in between two more coins and the effected area appears to be a tiny bit smaller in diameter than the other coins so the metal was probably not even touching the collar in this area.

this entire coin shows some damage such as part of the date is missing and a lot of Lincolns design features is missing and this would be impossible for anyone to do without removing the mint finish. right above the date is also a raised up place and this proves the date was not ground off. where the designer initals used to be is a pushed in area that looks like where the ejector finger was having a hard time removing the coin from the die.

I agree with Mike about the thin folded over place looking like PMD and this looks like what is usually on what we call spooned coins. darn if I can see how it got on this coin.I have some better photos and I will try to include them. It doesn't matter to me if this ever is declared a error or not , the way I see it is that it is a good example to learn from.

I have heard of coins being struck thru feeder fingers but I don't know if this is the case here or not. Like I said earlier if this coin didn't still have it's mint finish I would have thrown it away .

[rascal]

The broad, shallow indentations in the upper left quadrant aren't anything a coinage press could produce. The coin was clearly struck in-collar, but the edge sticks out next to the indentations. That also is impossible. Finally, you'll note the presence of a thin apron of metal extending over and partly obscuring IN GOD WE TRUST. That's a common effect of post-strike damage.

Sorry to bother you Mike while you are feeling bad but I want to tell you and the other error collectors some other things I discovered about my unusal coin today. I am now positive that this coin had some bad planchet damage before it was struck and the die must have also been heavily filled in with part of another coin or maybe debris.

I was examining the edge of the rim today in the effected area and there it was plain as day, about halfway down on the rim is a area that plainly shows that something clipped or pushed the top half of the planchet off before the strike with some metal flowing down into the smooth clipped area.

This probably accounts for the thin apron looking places you mentioned that is usually on altered coins , I have seen this on altered pieces and what you said was right in most cases. On this one when the top of the plachent edge got clipped or sheared off it was probably pushed over on to the top of the planchet and the filled in die or damaged then pushed it down into the coins edge.

I'm now believing that most of the sunken in places on my coin was done before the filled in or damaged die struck it.there is way too much evidence on this coin to even think it was damaged out side of the mint. like where only half of the date is visible this would be impossible for anyone to do because where the top of the 8 or 6 was supposed to be is a small raised die chip looking area , if someone altered the date in any way this could not possibly be there.also the area on and around the date has 100% mint luster and the surface is undisturbed.

I am totally convinced that this coin is a mint error but it may never be confirmed since it has so many different types of errors on it and just too unusal . Another reason I'm so sure that it is a mint error is the fact that the worst damaged looking area is a tiny bit smaller in diameter that the rest of the coin and the planchet may have been from the end of the planchet strip. if this was a altered coin this area would have been pushed way out of shape and the coin would have looked egg shaped.

Mike I will try to get you a photo of the area that shows the part of the clip on the coins edge if you would like to see it.

[rascal]

Hey guys I think I just now finally solved my dilemma with this unusal coin. I kept putting two and two together and came up with the most likely scerano. When I found the straight clip looking place a few minutes ago and my coin being smaller in diameter in this area it got me to thinking that my coin may be punched out from a end of a planchet roll . If this is the case then most likely the tool looking sunken in areas is probably from the locking pliers used by the mint workers to handle the big heavy copper planchet strips with. I also think the coin was also struck thru a late stage die cap or maybe a horribly damaged die or maybe the planchet was just too deformed.

[diamond]

You remind me of a global warming denier. No amount of evidence will convince you that you have nothing more than a damaged cent. You will present endless counter-arguments that amount to nothing more than special pleading. I have no interest in responding to any further posts on this matter. -- Mike Diamond

[rascal]

You remind me of a global warming denier. No amount of evidence will convince you that you have nothing more than a damaged cent. You will present endless counter-arguments that amount to nothing more than special pleading. I have no interest in responding to any further posts on this matter. -- Mike Diamond

Mike I'm really sorry that I got you so upset. I just thought you may be interested in the new things I found out today about this funky looking coin. again I'm sorry and I won't bother you again. Troy

[diamond]

I'm not upset. I merely indicated that further discussion of this topic would be pointless.