2004-D 5c Keelboat Missing Clad and other errors

[Novicetoerr]

Hi ALL !
For lovers of error nickels...

Thanks,
J

[diamond]

I see no error. What you've got is a discolored and corroded nickel.

[foundinrolls]

Hi,

I concur. That baby has probably been buried and sometime later, found by a metal detectorist and placed back into circulation.

A few other thoughts, nickels aren't made of a clad material and the "clip" is probably where the shovel dinged the coin as it was being removed from the ground.

Thanks,
Bill

[Novicetoerr]

Thanks again for the comments...

- If not clad, should be plated, right (with nickel alloy???)

- The surfaces (and designs) in the overse, reverse, rim
and edges are very even. Were they uniformly stripped
with corrosion =OR= missed its plating(???) .

- If this is corrosion, should have uneven topography and
at least will leave uneven traces of the plating(???).

- Weight is 5.1g (spec 5.0g);
Thickness is 1.95mm (spec is 1.95mm) and;
Diameter is 21.24mm (spec is 21.21mm).
If corroded, coin should be significantly less than
specs, but it is otherwise.

- It's also DDO/DDR (most of characters are bulgerd, light
separations (including serifs). I only hilited a few.

Thanks,
J

[Novicetoerr]

2004-D 5c Keelboat Missing Clad and other errors

Thanks again for the comments...

- If not clad, should be plated, right (with nickel alloy???)

- The surfaces (and designs) in the overse, reverse, rim
and edges are very even. Were they uniformly stripped
with corrosion =OR= missed its plating(???) .

- If this is corrosion, should have uneven topography and
at least will leave uneven traces of the plating(???).

- Weight is 5.1g (spec 5.0g);
Thickness is 1.95mm (spec is 1.95mm) and;
Diameter is 21.24mm (spec is 21.21mm).
If corroded, coin should be significantly less than
specs, but it is otherwise.

- It's also DDO/DDR (most of characters are bulgerd, light
separations (including serifs). I only hilited a few.

Thanks,
J

[foundinrolls]

Hi,

There is no plating on a US nickel. It is an alloy of .750 copper and .250 nickel. That means the metals are uniformly mixed and the blanks are made of solid metal composed of tose two metals.

Clad coins like halves, quarters and dimes, for example are clad. Clad coinage has layers bonded together. They have outside layers made of .750 copper and .250 nickel bonded to an inner core of pure copper.

A United States Five-cent piece is neither plated nor clad.

The coin you have shown is damaged either by environmental damage such as being buried in soil or tampered with by a dip in some harsh chemical.

Also, corrosion can also add to the weight of a coin due to the fact that other chemical compounds created during the process of corrosion can adhere to the surface of a coin adding weight.

At 5.1 gms, this coin would be within the tolerances of weigh variation allowed by the Mint anyway even if it were unblemished.

It is not a doubled die, it is not an error. It is simply another damaged coin.

Thanks,
Bill

[Novicetoerr]

Thanks again!

Pardon my unfamiliarity with the metallurgy of this
nickel coin...

- Does that mean the silvery color or luster of a new
minted nickel its inherent color?

- If I clean off this "brown-colored corroded layer"
=OR= clip/chip a tiny piece of the coin, should I
expect (at least similar, even without the original
luster) silvery color as when it was new? And not a
copper brown or brass colored metal?

- And if I do get a copper brown or brass color, can this
(possibly) be an OFF METAL coin?

Thanks,
J

-

[Novicetoerr]

Thanks again!

Pardon my unfamiliarity with the metallurgy of this
nickel coin...

- Does that mean the silvery color or luster of a new
minted nickel its inherent color?

- If I clean off this "brown-colored corroded layer"
=OR= clip/chip a tiny piece of the coin, should I
expect (at least similar, even without the original
luster) silvery color as when it was new? And not a
copper brown or brass colored metal?

- And if I do get a copper brown or brass color, can this
(possibly) be an OFF METAL coin?

Thanks,
J

-

Missed to add my follow-up query, on the coin being a DDO and DDR based from the bulging and doubling of the characters?

Thanks,
J

[diamond]

If you scrape the edge of the coin against a fine sharpening stone, you'll see the bright color of a freshly minted nickel. I see no evidence of a doubled die on either face.

[foundinrolls]

Simply and trying to be as helpful as I can be. The coin is a United States nickel, it is damaged, it has no numismatic value, it is not an error or die variety. It has not been struck on any kind of off-metal planchet. It seems that all the questions asked about it have been answered.

Spend it. It only has a value of five-cents.

Thanks,
Bill

[Novicetoerr]

2004-D 5c Keelboat Missing Clad and other errors

Hi Bill,

Pardon my persistence...

- It will be a "mortal sin" for a 28-year veteran engineer like me who only works and concludes based on "facts" ...(though in the field of microchip design and mfg - of the brain chips of your cell phones with all the latest gizmos/PDAs/reason why we are switching to HDTV and digital radio broadcasting, digital camera, networking, GPS,enabler of the engine that runs this website that enables us to do this forum, of the HARM and cruise missles that put down Saddam Hussein, and communications techs enabling us to watch the Gulf war in the comfort of our living rooms, the ABS brake controls and new auto radar/sensor system of today's latest auto models, can easily design chips (but no profitable market potential) that can automatically enable digital camera or microscope detect any error and tells us real time if it's DDO or DDR or MDD, and in the near future will let the blind see and cars talk to each other making traffic controls obsolete (to name a few).

...until proven otherwise. And I have attached the other facts that push me to keep this thread alive. I will agree then to your current assumptions if the facts are then looked at and all of us concluding to point it that way.


Please bear with me (as my user name implies...) Really appreciate all the inputs from you and the group that help me continue learning this exciting hobby.

Thanks,
J

[foundinrolls]

I understand your background but it is not pertinent where the metal of a coin is concerned.

I understand that you have a "show me and prove it to me" frame of mind and that's OK too.

It's strange to put it this way but the four or five people that have responded to your threads have between us (when all years are added together) at the least 200 years of experience with coinage.

Between us we have literally looked at tens of millions of coins of all denominations. I alone have examined more than 6,000,000 individual coins.

We've explained everything that can be explained on this and other coins. There has to come a time when you say. Hmmm, I must be wrong.

We've given you every pertinent fact. It is not a matter of examining the facts as it seems the facts don't prove anything.

You are asking questions based upon incorrect thoughts about the minting process and drawing conclusions based on your own erroneous creation of facts that are not true.

Your persistence is fine but there comes a point where you must take what we say as fact. Those of us here on this forum are all educators in one way or another in the field of numismatics. We've studied this subject for years.

There are things that we learn each day that are at a much deeper level than what we learned 20, 30, or 40 years ago. We stay current on the technologies and processes pertaining to the minting of coinage. I hate to sound less than humble, but I will say that there are people on this forum such as Mike, or Dr. Wiles, or BJ Neff, and others that I don't know by their forum names that will tell you things that you can be 100% sure on. I hesitate to place myself in their company but I have been involved in the study of error and variety coinage for 40 years now. AND...99 times out of 100 what I state is factual. The other 1% that I am not sure of, I say so....

You just have to let the persistence give way and allow the factual numismatic information that is presented here to be used to formulate your opinions.

At this point the facts seem to play a small role and fantasy is winning out.

On this nickel and on other coins, we've set out the facts. You can choose to accept them or not.

Answering questions that at this point are vague or are put together using some of the fantasy and not the facts won't go too far to convince you that the coins you have presented for viewing are nothing extraordinary. The answers will not change because the question is answered over and over again.

If 2+2+2=6 now, it will be again tomorrow.

Everything that can be said about this coin has been said. I lovingly call them "clunkers" and they go back in a roll of coins and go to the bank.

I just can't add anything else to this thread.

Thanks,
Bill

[Novicetoerr]

Pls understand that I am NOT after to having this coin to be collectible. What I am after is based from the facts that were mentioned... that it is an alloy with no clad nor plating, and therefore will be a uniform metal in composition and visual looks inside and out (assume unaltered/pristine condition).

What I just presented is a simple straightforward proof (looking at the inside of the coin) that it's look is different from the reference coin and contradicted mine and Mike D's expectation.

If I send the coin to CONECA (or other organization) for attribution, with my input of this contradiction and suspicion as OFF-METAL (as a customer), I will expect the attribution company to determine it thru the scientific elemental analysis of the metal(or other similar methods) , and not via premises or assumptions FROM past experiences or history (which will be unacceptable to a paying customer).

Can I send this coin to CONECA via CONECA's OFFICIAL attribution submission process/appropriate fees for my above expected confirmation process?

Thanks again,
J

[Novicetoerr]

2004-D 5c Keelboat Missing Clad and other errors

Pls understand that I am NOT after to having this coin to be collectible. What I am after is based from the facts that were mentioned... that it is an alloy with no clad nor plating, and therefore will be a uniform metal in composition and visual looks inside and out (assume unaltered/pristine condition).

What I just presented is a simple straightforward proof (looking at the inside of the coin) that it's look is different from the reference coin and contradicted mine and Mike D's expectation.

If I send the coin to CONECA (or other organization) for attribution, with my input of this contradiction and suspicion as OFF-METAL (as a customer), I will expect the attribution company to determine it thru the scientific elemental analysis of the metal(or other similar methods) , and not via premises or assumptions FROM past experiences or history (which will be unacceptable to a paying customer).

Can I send this coin to CONECA via CONECA's OFFICIAL attribution submission process/appropriate fees for my above expected confirmation process?

Thanks again,
J

[diamond]

I am CONECA's error coin examiner. You can send it to me if you wish, but I'm telling you it's a piece of junk. You have not presented any evidence that would indicate otherwise. I cannot send on a piece of junk to the grading service that encapsulates our coins, ICG. If you wish, you can send your coin directly to either of the two leading grading services -- PCGS and NGC. But you'll be wasting anywhere between $30 and $60 for the privilege of doing so. They will return the coin to you in what we call a "body bag".