1969-D Kennedy New Variety - maybe?

[tx7081040]

Just got this 69-D back from ANACS and they refused to attribute a variety to it despite the obvious doubling on the reverse (UNITED STATES, HALF DOLLAR...).

What is the process where a coin like this could be sent to the organization in charge establishing office varieties?

Thanks for any insight you may be able to give.

Mark S.

[mustbebob]

The 'Obvious doubling' on this coin is machine doubling. That is the reason why they wouldn't attribute it as a variety. There are no organizations that would assign a number to this also. BTW...did you pay for variety attribution?

[tx7081040]

I did pay for the variety attribution; however if that's just machine doubling I understand. I've always struggled with the difference between the two but I thought the 'anomoly' I was seeing was so profound that it had to be real doubling and not machine doubling.

Thanks !

[tx7081040]

Question: Can mere "machine doubling" ever get so pronounced that it rises to the level of something of value in numismetics?

Mark

[MintErrors]

I do not believe so. The only coin that has ever had machine doubling and worth anything is the coin Ken Potter attribution of the 1969S Lincoln cent ddo-001 and MD.

Machine doubling is almost always lower and step or shelf like. A double die is created back then, by multiple impressions on a die. Those impressions were at the same height or close to it. They use the same pressure to make those impressions. If they are off axis a cookie cutter li e can be present showing where one impression is over the top of another.

Ensure you match up any candidates with examples from variety vista. The doubled dies are struck in steel so the locations dont move.Most doubled dies have been confirmed by now. It's slim to find a new die variety from 50+ years ago.

I have a post on my website about machine doubling. It is in my signature. There are plenty of articles about it all over the web.

https://minterrors.org/wp-content/up...acecard-03.jpg

[Tim]

A coin with Machine Doubling can be a Die Variety if it has something going for at besides the Machine Doubling. I have seen several examples of this, so just because you see Machine Doubling at first, still give the coin the once over.

An example is here, look at the letters S OF AMERICA:

1973-S DDR-003 (varietyvista.com)

[MintErrors]

Here is the Ken Potter article of the 1969-S Lincoln cent Doubled die with machine doubling.

https://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/1969S1cDDFound.htm

[Ronald]

I do not believe so. The only coin that has ever had machine doubling and worth anything is the coin Ken Potter attribution of the 1969S Lincoln cent ddo-001 and MD.

Machine doubling is almost always lower and step or shelf like. A double die is created back then, by multiple impressions on a die. Those impressions were at the same height or close to it. They use the same pressure to make those impressions. If they are off axis a cookie cutter li e can be present showing where one impression is over the top of another.

Ensure you match up any candidates with examples from variety vista. The doubled dies are struck in steel so the locations dont move.Most doubled dies have been confirmed by now. It's slim to find a new die variety from 50+ years ago.

I have a post on my website about machine doubling. It is in my signature. There are plenty of articles about it all over the web.

https://minterrors.org/wp-content/up...acecard-03.jpg

So, in an effort to complete the visual understanding of the existence of dies that create the valuable DD coins that people search for, with multiple impressions on a die, and differentiate them from the worthless MD coins whose dies only have only one impression and are created by mechanical error (looseness), etc, were these dies with the valuable doubling on them created by machine error or human error, and if there was quality control why were they allowed to be put into service if in origination were worthless to produce a quality product.

[Tim]

So, in an effort to complete the visual understanding of the existence of dies that create the valuable DD coins that people search for, with multiple impressions on a die, and differentiate them from the worthless MD coins whose dies only have only one impression and are created by mechanical error (looseness), etc, were these dies with the valuable doubling on them created by machine error or human error, and if there was quality control why were they allowed to be put into service if in origination were worthless to produce a quality product.

Ronald - Please read the article linked, I believe you will find that Ken Potter was referring to his speculation that the coin was not a genuine DDO unseen because he had too many people claim to have the DDO and when seen in hand it was just MD, but in this case, it was the real deal. From my reading of the article and speaking to Ken, the coin referenced in the article has no MD.

[Ronald]

Ronald - Please read the article linked, I believe you will find that Ken Potter was referring to his speculation that the coin was not a genuine DDO unseen because he had too many people claim to have the DDO and when seen in hand it was just MD, but in this case, it was the real deal. From my reading of the article and speaking to Ken, the coin referenced in the article has no MD.

Tim, I have read and viewed all attached links and thanks to this forum have learned not only the definition but the separation of fact discerning the protocol and the only logical explanation for true valuable errors. My comment is in reference to the post to the OP not an article off topic, and agree with the MD opinion. In ironic full circle analysis I bring up the thought that a Machine error creation of a coin is worthless unless that machine/human error was in creation of the die that produced errors of value.

[MintErrors]

You have to remember that MOST doubled dies are NOT like the 1955 , 1969-S or 1972 ddo 1 or 2. Most require magnification to be seen and were elusive to discovery by mint personnel. Many were seemed " within mint tolerance" so they were utilized. The US Mint make only so many dies for a year, so it becomes important for them to use as many as they can for as long as they can. The multiple squeeze technology is put to rest for now.

Simply put when the mint used a multiple squeeze technology it was being done so prior to 1995. Technology has advanced since then, and with the QA and QC currently in placem hardly anything is escaping the mint. Most of the "classic" doubled dies including the 1995 are at least 27 years old. Many changes have been done. Some bad, but mainly in the right direction for the US Mint.

The good news is, collectors can branch out to their favorite foreign country and find a decent amount of overdates and a few doubled dies dating back to the 1600's. That ought to fill the craving for varieties. I had the priviledge to photograph over 100 of those world overdates that a well known Cherrypicker has found and bought. Some are quite impressive.

[Ronald]

You have to remember that MOST doubled dies are NOT like the 1955 , 1969-S or 1972 ddo 1 or 2. Most require magnification to be seen and were elusive to discovery by mint personnel. Many were seemed " within mint tolerance" so they were utilized. The US Mint make only so many dies for a year, so it becomes important for them to use as many as they can for as long as they can. The multiple squeeze technology is put to rest for now.

Simply put when the mint used a multiple squeeze technology it was being done so prior to 1995. Technology has advanced since then, and with the QA and QC currently in placem hardly anything is escaping the mint. Most of the "classic" doubled dies including the 1995 are at least 27 years old. Many changes have been done. Some bad, but mainly in the right direction for the US Mint.

The good news is, collectors can branch out to their favorite foreign country and find a decent amount of overdates and a few doubled dies dating back to the 1600's. That ought to fill the craving for varieties. I had the priviledge to photograph over 100 of those world overdates that a well known Cherrypicker has found and bought. Some are quite impressive.

Good points!