1965 SMS Kennedy Half Dollar

[Tim]

Photographs below are a 1965 SMS Kennedy Half Dollar which I thought was the DDO-003. Coin was sent in for attribution in 2014 and came back with the dreaded "Too minor to list." The coin is missing the reverse die marker, a die gouge on the letter R of AMERICA.

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[Tim]

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[Petespockets55]

Really nice images. Lots going on.
There have been times I've gotten that TMTL designation on submissions as well. That's too bad since the splits on the serifs are easy to see. Maybe try sending it off again? With the new attribution system in place, you might have a better outcome.

[Tim]

Really nice images. Lots going on.
There have been times I've gotten that TMTL designation on submissions as well. That's too bad since the splits on the serifs are easy to see. Maybe try sending it off again? With the new attribution system in place, you might have a better outcome.

Thanks for compliment on the photos, I’m still learning and getting the lighting right is still a challenge, you can notice this by the hot spots still in the pictures.

Getting the “Too minor to list” designation is frustrating at times, but it is important to try and figure out why, (is the doubling different in one area, are the recognized markers absent, is it master die doubling, or is it really “too minor to list”). To establish a recognized marker, you really have to have multiple examples of the same variety, hopefully of different die stages to document the progress or egress of the condition of the marker(s). I imagine that most of the time, only one example of the variety has been sent into Wiles at a time, which makes if difficult to document the marker(s) when you consider all the different dates and series he was doing.

[Ronald]

Hello, I agree with the photo quality. My question is was this coin separated from the set for photos and attribution? (Was/is it in a SMS slab/packaging)
Very, very nice pictures if shot through a mint SMS holder.

[Tim]

Hello, I agree with the photo quality. My question is was this coin separated from the set for photos and attribution? (Was/is it in a SMS slab/packaging)
Very, very nice pictures if shot through a mint SMS holder.

Photos are shot while encapsuled in a PCGS slab.

[Petespockets55]

Thanks for compliment on the photos, I’m still learning and getting the lighting right is still a challenge, you can notice this by the hot spots still in the pictures.

.... , only one example of the variety has been sent into Wiles at a time, which makes if difficult to document the marker(s) ...

You're welcome but you made it easy to see all the reasons this should qualify as an accepted variety.

The official attributors definitely know their "stuff". Most have been around a long, long time. They are very good at determining markers from a single coin (if any are present and visible), especially if that coin is a high-grade coin. (They have spotted many that I hadn't noticed at first.)

My understanding of the new CONECA attribution system is to basically use multiple people to develop a consensus of whether there is a variety and whether it is strong enough to be accepted by the numismatic community. (I don't want to digress into subjective grading by the grading companies, but similar to them using multiple people with a "finalizer" to help determine a grade.)
IMHO, CONECA has developed a long term strategy for attributing new varieties that isn't relying on the health, abilities, and availability of a single person. In the future, attributions may be able to be done with AI (Artificial Intelligence). This new system may not be as streamlined as the one-step process before but IMHO it should help in the long run.

[atrox001]

Tim... don't think it is the 65 SMS DDO-003. I had sent this die to James Wiles back in 2003 and again in 2011 he said both times too minor. Attached are a couple of photos of markers on my half dollar that match the one you had sent in. A small group of die gouge dots in the field to the left of the bottom of the Y in LIBERTY, and the short die gouge coming from the top right of the I in IN GOD. I think you should send it in to CONECA, maybe a new attributer will list it.

thumbnail_65 Y.jpg
thumbnail_65 IN.jpg

[Tim]

Tim... don't think it is the 65 SMS DDO-003. I had sent this die to James Wiles back in 2003 and again in 2011 he said both times too minor. Attached are a couple of photos of markers on my half dollar that match the one you had sent in. A small group of die gouge dots in the field to the left of the bottom of the Y in LIBERTY, and the short die gouge coming from the top right of the I in IN GOD. I think you should send it in to CONECA, maybe a new attributer will list it.

Larry - Those are good markers that you pointed out and there are two more. The First one, the bottom of the I in IN and the second, a die scratch in the field between the top of the I of IN and the rim.

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I will start a thread in the CONECA Services, Attribution Forum and link this thread for this 1965 SMS Kennedy half dollar and hopefully someone will look at it and decide if it is worthy of getting a new listing in the CONECA files and tell me who to send it to plus the process.

Larry, thank you for your assistance with this variety.

Tim