64PR 1c Trails

[atrox001]

BJ…I was searching a 64PR set for varieties and this caught my eye…is this an example of trails coming from LIBERTY on the 1c? The photo was taken through the mint cellophane. Are trails commonly seen on 64 proofs?

Thank You,
Larry Nienaber

[mustbebob]

BJ ought to be excited by this one. This definitely seems like a genuine trails die. If it is, I believe it would be the earliest known die (by a long shot). I will wait for him to make the determination, but I am pretty sure it is what you think.

[wavysteps]

Larry - It definitely does look like a trail die. It may seem odd to say, however, there may be some connection to the way proof dies and the single squeeze dies are made that produces trails. It may be that a higher pressure system (hydraulics) for hubbing the design is used in both proofs and single squeeze dies and by using this increased pressure it causes movement to the die at the end of the hubbing cycle.

I had briefly talked to Mike Diamond concerning these dies, that pre-single squeeze dies (excluding proof dies) may not have been exasperated enough to produce trails (wavy steps). However, with increased pressure (which would increase the thermal energy produced) it was enough to push the single squeeze dies "over the edge" and start producing this type of anomaly.

Now Larry, would you be willing to send this die down to Florida that I can photograph it (making sure that it is a trail die) and enter it into my filing system?

Thanks
BJ Neff

[diamond]

It sure looks like trails to me. I'm please, but not entirely surprised, to see a very early case like this. I don't think trails are peculiar to the single-squeeze system; I just think the single-squeeze system makes their development much more likely. As BJ said, the stresses are a lot higher.

[Novicetoerr]

64PR 1c Trails

Hi All,
Learned another error ategory.

I got a collection of similar (business) cents from 1960 to 1990, though not as pronounced as Larry's.

Have originally entitled my grouped coin as "THE VANISHING L's (...and I's)" from LIBERTY...mainly due to OFFSET.


J

[diamond]

Your L's may be missing or incomplete as a result of a minor misaligned die, grease clogging the die, or die deterioration which causes the letter to merge with the design rim.

[Novicetoerr]

Hi Mike,

- Unsure of the correct term...if misaligned die (or OFFSET).

- But definitely not grease, since most are misiing collars; or design
elements offset the rims. Will show you once my camera is set-up.

Thanks!
J

[atrox001]

Thanks for the responses. I removed this cent out of the cello and took a few more photos (attached). If this is an example of trails they are very light…you have to rotate the cent just right under the scope to see them. Anyway…BJ, you can have this coin if you want it…send me your address in a PM and I will mail it to you. It would be nice to get you thoughts about it…could you post a response to this thread after you review it?

Thanks,
Larry Nienaber

[wavysteps]

Larry - Light positioning is one of the keys to trail dies and makes them so hard to photograph. At times, my pictures will have "hot spots" (areas of intense light feedback) because no other angle of light will show these lines.

Since my address is connected to the Membership Chair of CONECA, I'll just post it here;

Robert Neff
321 Kingslake Dr.
DeBary, Florida 32713

Thanks Larry and I'll put my findings on this thread.

BJ Neff

[Novicetoerr]

Thanks for the responses. I removed this cent out of the cello and took a few more photos (attached). If this is an example of trails they are very light…you have to rotate the cent just right under the scope to see them. Anyway…BJ, you can have this coin if you want it…send me your address in a PM and I will mail it to you. It would be nice to get you thoughts about it…could you post a response to this thread after you review it?

Thanks,
Larry Nienaber

Absolutely GREATTTTT close-up pictures Larry!!!


J

[atrox001]

BJ...have you had a chance to review the 64PR cent? Are those trails? If so are you going to list it in your files with a number?

Thank You
Larry Nienaber

[wavysteps]

Larry - I am still studying this die. In one way they do look like trails and in another, since they are the same direction as the planchet grain, they do not. As to the actual trails themselves, there are some differences, but yet they do look similar. Confused? so am I a bit (LOL).

BJ Neff