1952-D Lincoln Wheat/Doubling on forehead

[CoinAuctionsHelp]

We purchased an original roll of 1952-D Wheats Cents. While examining the roll I was immediately surprised when I began discovering that some of the coins where from the same die and where examples of different die states. In example, small die crack on the skull, then a larger die crack on the next one and this went on for at least 5 different coins.

Then I noticed doubling on the forehead under the 5x loop and examined it closer with a 10x, and then my microscope under 20x and 30x. I was in disbelief because several of the coins showed this doubling. Also, it's obvious there is some abraded die features on some of the coins, and some die or machine damage. So I didn't want to make a fatal error on my part.

Then I looked at the entirety of every coin, and found some doubling on the date and letters of 3 or 4 of the coins. I have examined more rolls of cents then I can count in my life time, and this seems to good to be true. But I know at least one of these coins is doubling.

I posted this because I'm still in doubt that all this could be found in one roll, and if these coins turn out to be a false alarm, they are still significant, because there is at least 2 different sets of coins, from two different dies, showing die state progress. So, I will be satisfied either way.

I can see a definite split in the serifs with rounded doubling. I may have some eye fatigue, but the camera and the loop don't lie, to me. Here is some pictures of three of the coins. I will take better photos later, but I was in a hurry to get these done, and move onto my website duties.

[Steven]

It appears to be Mechanical Doubling Damage (MDD). Here is a page that may help.
Steven

MECHANICAL DOUBLING DAMAGE

[CoinAuctionsHelp]

The only reading I need is the Cherry Pickers Guide. This website has some errors, and I saw one picture of strike doubling and another of abrasion doubling that where referred to as true doubling. Either that or his pictures are lacking the correct angles. I have the cherry pickers guide as a permanent part of my computer desk.

It's opened to the double die section, and has been often. A true DDO doesn't have to be completely seperated with minor doubling. Also, it can just be a dot or short line next to a design element, that's only a partial DDO of the main design element.

Thanks anyway, but Ken Potter's site and CONECA are better reference tools.

It appears to be Mechanical Doubling Damage (MDD). Here is a page that may help.
Steven

MECHANICAL DOUBLING DAMAGE

[wavysteps]

CoinAuctionsHelp - I am not to sure if you are aware that this site is part of CONECA. As to the errors on this site, there are three people on this site who do have the ability to tell what it is from a picture; Mike Diamond, James Wiles and myself.

As an attributer, I will not make such a call, whether it be a DDO, DDR or RPM, from a picture. If I do believe that it is possibly a variety die, I will refer that person to have it physically looked at.

This site is not a reference site per se; it is for the discussion of finds, whether it be an error or variety coin.

Now on to your coins. The doubled forehead of Lincoln is I believe caused by reduction lathe and is documented in the CPG, fourth Edition, Vol # 1. The 2 digit in the date does seem to have notching and I believe that this maybe 1952 Lincoln Cent, DDO-001; A class V doubled die with a CW spread. However, to be absolutely sure, it should be physically analyzed.

While I am a big fan of the CPGs, they are far form complete and such sites as CONECA's, Variety Vista and Coppercoins (for the Lincoln cent) provide a larger base of information on doubled dies and RPMs.

BJ Neff

[CoinAuctionsHelp]

I thought I was discussing a find. The site I was referred to didn't appear accurate, and I didn't say for anyone to use my reference just pointing out better references to the previous poster.

Thanks for responding and all the info. I think this roll is important to Lincoln Cent Collectors or I wouldn't bother posting all the pictures or anything else for that matter. My website takes most of my time, but I felt this find was notable, and almost 75% of this roll might be varieties or show die state progress.

I will have them attributed, to be sure of what I think I found.

Thanks again!

[atrox001]

As to the errors on this site, there are three people on this site who do have the ability to tell what it is from a picture; Mike Diamond, James Wiles and myself.

Only three?


Larry Nienaber

[wavysteps]

Maybe I should have worded it differently. There are three moderators on this site and I trust their judgment when it comes to make a call on just a picture alone. If some of the other well known die and error specialist were to comment on a coin in this site, I would also trust their judgment as well.

Bill O'Rouke frequents this site and I would trust his judgment; I have seen Ken Potter also jump in on a few threads. So "yes" there are more than three.

BJ Neff

[wavysteps]

I must have zoned out for I thought that it was a 1952 and not a 1952-D Lincoln cent.

I would, if I were you, submit it to James Wiles for "in hand analysis", that is the only way to make sure that this is a doubled die if it is.. It does look similar to the 1952 Lincoln cent DDO-001, which has notching on the 2 digit of the date and doubling on TRUST.

You can find out how to send this die to James on CONECA's home page.

BJ Neff

[mustbebob]

Most 1952 cents also have master die doubling on the date, and that is what I see on the 2 of the date. BJ was right on with the reduction lathe doubling on the forehead, and this will also show on many other dates from the 40s and 50s. The only other thing I see is mechanical die doubling with the pictures supplied. This die is also pretty far along it's striking life as evidenced by the die crack below the 9 in the date. You will see this on other 1952D dies as well. As far as die progression goes, it is possible to find some various die states in a single roll. As far as the importance of that progression, it is especially helpful for pulling marker information for varieties.
My personal opinion is that you are doing yourself an injustice by only using the CPG for your reading reference. Although a very good book, it lacks sufficient in-depth detail to be called complete. There are many other sources with much more information that expands on what the CPG says. Even sites or books that contain an error or two should not be discounted because of them. More often than not, they are correct in their assessments.
I agree that you should send your coins in for attribution if you feel that strongly about them. On the other hand, if you are unsure of what you have, and want to save a few bucks beforehand, there is more expertise here than you think. Good luck on your roll, and thanks for sharing the pics.

[CoinAuctionsHelp]

I'm going to have one or two sent to be attributed, and then I will see about the die progression.

It's not about just reading CPG, it's but one reference. I read CONECA, Ken Potters, Mint Error Magazine, Die Variety News Magazine, Coin World, Official Price Guide To Mint Errors by Alan Herbert, and many other websites.

I don't need direction is what I'm trying to say. These coin display many issues, and mustbebob has come closest to my own conclusion. The dies that struck these coins where close to the end of their life, their are die cracks, die abrasion doubling, etc. But aside from all of that, there are a few features of doubling that's not machine doubling, and is Hub Doubling type.

Now where I'm no expert begins to show, because from memory I don't know all the different hub doubling types or classes. But Herbert's book is always there along side my CPG, ANA Grading Book, and my Morgan VAM book. Anyway, I have to be accurate in my findings and on my knowledge or I couldn't be helpful with my website.

I thank everyone who has responded and offered their opinions. It's the reason I posted this in the first place. Also, I just found an 1984-D RPM, the faint D is 3/4 seperated from the D, and is around 7:00 below the main D. Too bad the coin is only EF.