major clashed die coin?

[rascal]

WOW!!!! There are so many folks interested in this coin I may have to get it appraised , the way they are acting it may be a million dollar coin.

[rockdude]

WOW!!!! There are so many folks interested in this coin I may have to get it appraised , the way they are acting it may be a million dollar coin.

The only interest is how and why ICG got it wrong.

[rascal]

The only interest is how and why ICG got it wrong.

Well then if this is bothering you two so much why don't you ask ICG before you end up sick worrying over it? there is absolutely no way in the world that you or anyone else can truthfully declare that ICG got this wrong from just looking at my bad photos. It is a possibility they may have labeled it wrong but IMHO it is a real mint error . this may be something that newbies have never heard of.

[19Lyds]

Well then if this is bothering you two so much why don't you ask ICG before you end up sick worrying over it? there is absolutely no way in the world that you or anyone else can truthfully declare that ICG got this wrong from just looking at my bad photos. It is a possibility they may have labeled it wrong but IMHO it is a real mint error . this may be something that newbies have never heard of.

Might I suggest you send the coin to BluCC Photo ( http://www.bluccphotos.com/ ) for professional photography. Todd does excellent work. You could even contact him via telephone to describe exactly what and how you would like the coin photographed.

If not Todd, then there are other numerous individuals that are quite capable of photographing your coin.

[rascal]

Might I suggest you send the coin to BluCC Photo ( http://www.bluccphotos.com/ ) for professional photography. Todd does excellent work. You could even contact him via telephone to describe exactly what and how you would like the coin photographed.

If not Todd, then there are other numerous individuals that are quite capable of photographing your coin.

Thanks 19lyds this sounds like a good idea but I have already had this coin looked at by a person everyone trusts in the coin hobby and he says he sees no reason to think ICG got it wrong. I would tell you his name but a bunch of nut cases would start on him like someone already did. actually I didn't ask him to attribute the coin as what I believe it is , I just asked him if he thought it was a real mint error or not.

I have learned a little better how to get better photos and If I can find the time I will try to get you all a good photo that shows how the incuse letters are up tight against the coins rim with maybe even some of the top part of the letters missing. also we must remember that part of another incuse letter is on top of Lincoln's head.

when BJ Neff get's to where he is not so busy I may send the coin to him and he does really good photos. I hate to keep sending coins thru the mail for fear of losing them . BJ is hopefully still my friend and also Mikes friend so surely we can all trust him. I'm totally sure that all of you that knows anything about coins can easy tell this is not one of the hammer job coins if I can get a better photo of it. getting photos thru coin slabs is hard to do.

The only thing I don't like about this coin is the fact that it is one of those darn zinc cents.

[rockdude]

Well then if this is bothering you two so much why don't you ask ICG before you end up sick worrying over it? there is absolutely no way in the world that you or anyone else can truthfully declare that ICG got this wrong from just looking at my bad photos. It is a possibility they may have labeled it wrong but IMHO it is a real mint error . this may be something that newbies have never heard of.

Good idea. Bad photo's. It will help in the furture.

[rascal]

Ok guys here's two more photos of this awesome coin. notice that part of the top of the extra R is missing and it is not on the inside of the rim. this pretty much proves it is a real mint error regardless of what someone may say. also look at how adruptly the line on the memorial building ends down below the surface of the coin. plus there is absolutely none of the things that is always associated with the hammer/squeeze job coins.

[rockdude]

It's an obvious squeeze job. The incuse design elements cross Lincoln's face, which is not possible considering how high the relief is in this area. You'll also note that some of the incuse elements invade the design rim, which is also not possible in a clash. All other sources of incuse, mirror-image design elements (e.g., brockage, flipped over dropped filling) are also inadmissable. ICG got it hysterically wrong. This will be my only comment on this vandalized coin.

-- Mike Diamond

Sorry but I still agree with Mike..and also still bad pictures.

[rascal]

Sorry but I still agree with Mike..and also still bad pictures.

You don't need to feel sorry about anything and you are entitled to your own opinion. I know what I have here and that is all that matters to me. My photos are good enough for someone that knows a little about coins to be able to see that there is no rim damage at all.

[cents1st]

The reverse is not on a horizontal plane with the obverse. The dies do not line-up (rotate) in Mint presses to strike a coin--obv vs. rev--at a 12 degree angle.

[rascal]

The reverse is not on a horizontal plane with the obverse. The dies do not line-up (rotate) in Mint presses to strike a coin--obv vs. rev--at a 12 degree angle.

You sure have a lot of learning to do about coins but if you stay at it long enough you can learn. It is very common for the cent coins from about 1987 to 1989 to be struck with a slightly rotated reverse. you will find more like this than coins with aligned dies for these years. you mean to tell me you have never seen a coin with a rotated reverse. some coins have been found with major rotated reverses.

[cents1st]

I am an ex-Mint employee. I know more about presses & dies than most. This is my last reply to you.

[19Lyds]

The reverse is not on a horizontal plane with the obverse. The dies do not line-up (rotate) in Mint presses to strike a coin--obv vs. rev--at a 12 degree angle.

Ex-Mint employee or not, I have to disagree with this statement since evidence of rotated reverse coins is undeniable. They do exist which shows that dies do not always line up on the same plane AND they rotate.

Review this thread on the IKE Group Forum:

http://ikegroup.org/php3.0.2/phpBB/v...7f8dca3822639e

It clearly shows that not only can dies clash while rotating but they can clash on different planes or degrees of rotation.

[Zimmy]

I am having a difficult time believing this is a clashed die. I understand that rotaed dies exist but you have to agree that even a 12% rotation is not common. Then you add in that the dies have to be "bulging" in order for the clash marks to transfer into Lincoln's nose area (where are the other clash marks from this "bulging die". Also, the so called clashed letters are off center from their normal position to the point they are entering into the rim (not possible with a clash) or at least near the rim area making it at minimum a misaligned clash. To me the liklihood of this all happening as well as it not having the characteristics normally associated with a clash is more than a stretch.

[rascal]

I am having a difficult time believing this is a clashed die. I understand that rotaed dies exist but you have to agree that even a 12% rotation is not common. Then you add in that the dies have to be "bulging" in order for the clash marks to transfer into Lincoln's nose area (where are the other clash marks from this "bulging die". Also, the so called clashed letters are off center from their normal position to the point they are entering into the rim (not possible with a clash) or at least near the rim area making it at minimum a misaligned clash. To me the liklihood of this all happening as well as it not having the characteristics normally associated with a clash is more than a stretch.

go back and read my post #3 . there is another possibility for this to be a mint error other than a clashed die. It is definately not one of the homemade junkers where people smash them together.