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1988 No FG ?

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  • 1988 No FG ?

    I’ve read some older threads pertaining to a 1988 no FG penny but I’m still not sure if it considered an actual error or not. I’m including pictures of mine in different lighting and would greatly appreciate your expertise. Thank you
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    This gallery has 5 photos.

  • #2
    I don't see anything there, but I am sure it once was.
    They simply polish the dies to keep them in service life for as long as they can continue to make coins.

    I haven't see many 1988's out there.
    But I have seen a few rolls worth of 1969-D Lincoln Cents with the combo of a "floating roof" and the no FG designer issues.

    You question made me look to see if any of the Lincoln Cents have an no FG pricing - WOW a brown 1969-D Lincoln Cent with no FG is going for 100 bucks - I have at least a roll of those. I may have to send a few of them off. Thaks for asking the question - I had no idea they listed those. I considered them pretty minor.

    https://www.pcgs.com/prices/detail/l.../ms?pn=1&ps=-1


    Your coin appears to be circulated. But, not too much. In any event, I don't see anything. That's a good thing.

    For my 1969-D's I would use a ton of light trying to see if there was even a smidge of the FG, since 3rd party grading services would be pretty critical on calling it a No FG.

    I don't know if they consider the right dies to call it a No FG or if they wish, call it an an "abraided (polished) die".

    Is this an error?
    Hummm good question.

    If anything it might be a variety since the mint workers may have induced the no FG due to an over polishing.
    If it was grease - and could be proven to be - I guess that could be an error? Since the striking of the die was impaired by a gob of grease in the FG.
    Most people will call it an an "anomaly".

    PCGS calls it a FS 901, so is that a variety? I think so.

    Dies are expensive. they try to make these things last as long as possible. So, occasionally they take the die out to do some maintenance on it, clean it up a bit and place it back in the coin press. Sometimes they get just a weeeee over zealous when polishing these dies to make them last longer.

    Bottom line is, it is either due to over polishing the die, or debris gets in there and causes issues.
    Yours looks like it the die was polished pretty severely.
    If the scratches are raised on the coin, they probably came from the die.
    Sometimes it is grease that will clog the area as well.
    I don't know if there is a demand for these things, as I haven't tried to sell any.

    What I am getting at is, there may be a way to track these, but I don't follow the No FG items.
    The no FG may have a die marriage (an obverse die and a reverse die documented so they know it came from that pair of working dies) meaning it can show "PUPs" or pick up points to tell if the this coin was struck by the die(s) that were confirmed to have a no FG.

    I think the 1988 is best known for the wide "wide AM" (space between A and M in AMERICA) - those can fetch some decent cashola. =) . I guess a good looking no FG would come in a close second.


    Jason C. or another CONECA staff member may chime in as well.
    I just collect and sell boatloads of copper Lincoln Cents and Re-punched mint marks.
    ​​

    I know of a few posts where this may help:

    This link below was on this forum, not sure if the link will show correctly...
    1988-P Lincoln No Initials - CONECA Error-Variety Coin Forum (conecaonline.org)

    Another off-CONECA website
    1988 P Lincoln Cent No FG Do To Overpolishing? (Vlds) - Coin Community Forum
    Last edited by MintErrors; 02-22-2021, 04:02 PM.
    Gary Kozera
    CONECA State Representative for Virginia
    Website: http://www.minterrors.org

    Comment


    • #3
      One last thing, I took some time to take a few photos of the 1969-D No FG and I want to point out what I was trying to say better, in photos. Most of the ones I have tubed up are probably Red to Red Brown, anywhere from MS60 to 63.

      The first two photos are 1969-D Lincoln Cent Reverses with the potential to be no FG's.

      coin 00001.jpg

      coin 00002.jpg

      Then I really let the area have it with lighting. I use a Trinocular Stereo Microscope, with a Microscope camera mounted in the Trinocular port. I set the light right over the open lens eyepiece and look at the image on my monitor. I want to see if there is any hint of the FG designer initials there:

      1969-D-oversaturated-lighting.jpg

      The photo above shows "something" there. That well placed dot takes away from my point, but my point shows up better in the photo below:

      1969-D-Lincoln-Cent-Rev-Weak-FG.JPG

      To me, this photo "kinda" reveals that there IS an FG there. Now, here is the question of the day. What IS considered a "no FG" and what will get labeled as an "abraided die" ? I guess it depends on the attributor/verifier's mindset for the moment he looks at one of these.

      WAIT ! Did you catch what else is wrong with the photo above?




      Spoiler alert: It is also a "Floating Roof" as well. The very top of the Memorial building doesn't have the far right and far left vertical bars to make it look attached.


      The photo directly below is a 1969-D with a solid FG for comparison The lighting has stayed the same for the two reverses:

      Normal-1969-D-Licoln-Cent-Reverse.JPG

      Some times - the least amount of magnification can show just a little more definition.



      1969-D-Lincoln-Cent-Obv-Weak-FG.JPG
      Last edited by MintErrors; 02-22-2021, 08:44 PM.
      Gary Kozera
      CONECA State Representative for Virginia
      Website: http://www.minterrors.org

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Akeibler View Post
        I’ve read some older threads pertaining to a 1988 no FG penny but I’m still not sure if it considered an actual error or not. I’m including pictures of mine in different lighting and would greatly appreciate your expertise. Thank you
        Akeibler, this is the exact reason of why I ended up here. For the last couple weeks, I have been trying to get info on this as I found one while searching for the 89 reverse. Ken Wexler has agreed that this is caused by an abraided die thereby removing the initials. Mine has extremely strong die scratches in it and Lincoln is almost completely removed (only his legs are visibile). Here's some pics of mine. Given that this is a second one in two days.....maybe time to give it it's due???
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          I replied to your other post about these abraded dies. There is no time for giving it its due. It is nothing but an abraded die. There are thousands and thousands of dies out there with abrasion issues from one extent to another. There are some with multiple abrading events. They will change with striking as well. You can save them if you wish, but getting it recognized by CONECA is not something we will do. Sorry.
          Bob Piazza
          Lincoln Cent Attributer

          Comment


          • #6
            I have one of these also ive examined mine with 10x and under that magnification cant see any parts of the fg ever being there however when the light hits it from the exact angle and i use my digital micro with high power zoom there seems to be the slightest piece of the bottom of the g not sure if this is the case with yours but im pretty sure that when grading is done there is a maximum magnification that is the standard and in my opinion if it isnt seen with that power then it should be classified no fg ive been wanting to post mine and get the ball rolling on what is or isnt a no fg also the surface where the fg belongs has no transition differing from the field area

            Comment


            • #7
              I guess I need to be as blunt as possible regarding the supposed no designer initials on some cents. What is it you are looking to do? Who is it that you want to verify this and for what purpose? You folks are really missing the boat with this kind of stuff. They were not made at the mint with no designers initials...period! This is nothing but worthless abrading issues of which there are many millions of examples in various years. If you think there is a significant premium associated with it, then go ahead and try to get it recognized by someone else. The few examples of abraded dies that were/are listed in the cherry pickers guide in my eyes are just that. Abrading issues and as such, have little or no premium. Now...I will caveat that by saying if these things interest you, then by all means search for and collect them. My main point is that they are not listable anywhere and they can show up on any coin at any time once they are abraded at the mint. There are other times when normal circulation wear or other damage will result in the anomaly. How is it even possible to document these?

              Basically folks, there are hundreds of other things you can search for that at least some one has put time and effort into listing. Those are what you should probably be looking for.
              Bob Piazza
              Lincoln Cent Attributer

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Gary and Bob.

                It's not impossible that someone would pay a small (few dollar) premium for designer initials that were abraded off.

                A related error would be a clogged die where the design wasn't struck - a struck through grease error. Not worth much if anything either.

                It cannot be anything else. You can advocate for it to be called a "No FG" Lincoln, but I think these are a tad too common and am not sure that there are enough collectors that'll take interest. I personally, have little interest in a small localized abrasion like this. I have a few abrasion errors and my whole interest was to have them on hand as an example for education purposes.
                Jason Cuvelier

                CONECA
                Lead attributer

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jason, I totally agree even with the floating roof variety if you will.

                  But...... WHY does PCGS kindle the fire and say the 1969-D No FG is worth a hundred bucks? I am just saying - One of my collector friends says the same thing, why on earth does this command a premium? I don't know anyone who ever bought or sold one.

                  https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/...-901-bn/415498


                  The old saying always applies.... The collectible is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it.
                  Gary Kozera
                  CONECA State Representative for Virginia
                  Website: http://www.minterrors.org

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sometimes, once one of these errors gets a nice cool sounding label, it seems impossible to shake it loose and they get slabbed and sell anyway...
                    Jason Cuvelier

                    CONECA
                    Lead attributer

                    Comment

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