Where to put this? Both Variety & Mint Errors

[Merlin8971]

Here is an 1866 Three Cent Nickel with THREE major errors. They include a Doubled die Obverse (arrows in Red) under bust, Ponytail hair, "AMERICA," a Repunched Date (arrows in yellow) the two 6's with secondary date North (as per Cherrypickers Vol 1), and Die Clashes (arrows in blue) both Obverse and Reverse.

Anyone want to educate the rest of us by giving an analysis of how to value a coin such as this (assuming all errors are genuine) with three major errors? Would one take the value of the Repunched date and add that to the value of the Doubled Die Obverse and then add in a die clash value.......or...... would the values increase somewhat expodentially when combined?

[Merlin8971]

Close up photos

More photos

[Merlin8971]

64 Views

64 views and not a single comment? hummm

[Merlin8971]

87 views and NO COMMENTS

COME ON GUYS..... what's up with the no comments???? It does not feel very good when 87 people look at this particular coin which seems to have three different variety ERRORS on it and NO ONE wants to GIVE ANY information to this """MEMBER""" of CONECA. Why did I spend the money to become a member ....just to be ignored?

IS THERE SOME RULE that does not permit discussing values???? Is there something nefarious about values that amateurs are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PRIVY TO???????

[garmstrong6567]

Merlin, I'll be kind enough to respond, since you did for me on my thread.

I'm hardly an expert on V&E coins (or anything else for that matter), so someone here can correct me if I'm wrong.

For a lot of series, there will be a published book which sometimes addresses major known varieties and perhaps even discusses values for those known varieties. Perhaps someone can refer you to a book on Three Cent Nickels. I don't personally have such a book in my library, but one probably exists.

In my experience, dealers who know way more than I do have told me that varieties not listed in the Red Book can sometimes be sold for 10 percent or so more than what a "normal" coin is worth, just because the coin is different and has a certain "neatness" factor to it. But not much more than that.

It has been said (and I don't know how true it is, but it wouldn't surprise me) that the authors who publish high values for V&E coins are usually just making up a higher price because they have a lot of those particular coins to sell. In short, they're just "setting" the market values to benefit themselves. But if they have enough following and people actually start paying those prices, then that really does become the "real" market value. It boils down to buyer interest (or market demand), I guess. If the demand is there, the published prices become real market values. If the demand isn't there, then it's just an artificially high "published" value with no basis in fact. And only someone who deals extensively in V&E coins would know how much demand there truly is.

Good luck!

[Merlin8971]

Thanks

Thank you garmstrong6567 for your reply. I appreciate that. The 1866 three cent nickel is listed in Cherrypickers on page 186 FS-3N-1866-301 Repunched Date. The doubled die obverse is listed in Cherrypickers on page 185 FS-3N-1866-101 (004). The die clash obverse/reverse is not listed in Cherrypickers.

So, the issue is, does one ADD the error values together ($125 for the Repunched Date plus $250 for the doubled die obverse (@AU50+) and add something more for the clashed dies) for an approximate value or does the value increase at a somewhat exponential rate as one would see (i.e. MS66 versus an MS 67 or 68 value which may go two or three times the MS66).

I know that PCGS would charge more for a two error coin (i.e. Repunched Date and Doubled Die Obverse (and possibly more yet for the die clash)). I sent in a 1941-S at the FUN show last year. I did specify on the application a "Large S" variety but since they did not charge me another $25 for the attribution they would not designate the variety. Of course if I resummited it, with the proper amount they charge, they would re-slab the coin.

It is just SOOOO frustrating that no one wants to value coins on here. I realize that APPROXIMATE VALUES could vary, and as you said, coins are worth only what someone is williing to pay for the coin, but one would think an approximate value could be stated. Heaven help you though, if you "CLEAN" a coin because any dealer or "expert" will tell you that you've ruined the value of the coin (even though they may not tell you what that value was with the original patina).

If one happens to find a truely rare unknown variety and posts it here, the "experts" will fall all over themselves to get your permission to list the variety and photos in Variety Vista or some other article appropriate to CONECA. Go figure!

Sometimes I think it boils down to the "experts" not giving a value to a coin because they stand behind some sort of "purist's" idea that coins are ONLY for the love of collecting (and value does not matter). But, I can guarantee you that NONE of these "experts" would give away their valuable coins just to expand the numismatic world to other collectors.

Since it take a fairly large amount of time to photograph, add appropiate arrows to photos, list the variety on CONECA and post the photos, I generally do not post MOST of my error coins. I only post what I think are kewl or interesting varieties to share with the public and get some sort of idea of the coin's worth. I have more than 6,500 error coins. I know some are not worth much or anything over face value (mechanical doubling, ect) but some are relatively valuable and all are interesting. As an example, I have a 2008-P Hawai'i coin that has die chips on either side of the feet of the king. Interestingly I had seen a Nova show on giant calderas and Hawai'i was one that showed other island chains made by the caldera 50 million years from now that coincidentally were in a very similar position of these die chips. Maybe not a valuable coin, but really kewl to me.


But, Thanks again garmstrong6567 for the discussion. Maybe some day things will change, but I am not going to hold my breath till it changes.

[Petespockets55]

Nice coin and congrats.

Sigh. Where to start?
I guess I'll start trying to address the OP's frustration. (ps. I hope this is received as it is intended and not as criticism.)
This reply isn't short, but I'll try to give some perspective (I got back into collecting in 2013.)
My "forte" is Lincoln cents. I guess they're my forte because I grew up collecting them, they are relatively inexpensive, and I've never had much "disposable" income.

3 cent nickels have a limited run, limited "fan" base, and not much online information on them. I ran into this "wall" about 5 months ago when I bought 22 on a lark hoping to find some varieties. There were three, including one new variety that I confirmed with an expert.

"Time" and limited number of collectors in the series are probably the main reason most people don't reply. Of course, that excludes the dozens of bots flying all over the web since they have nothing but time and don't reply, unless it's a link to some "non-coin", related site.
Everyone has different things demanding their "time" and a lot of people come on sites for enjoyment and to get a little respite from everyday goings on. They like seeing and learning but not necessarily taking what little time may be available to them at the moment to reply.

Also, remember that a lot of members are newer members like yourself who may not feel confident offering insight on something that they know little about. garmstrong6576 took the time to offer some insight, you thanked him/her, and both are what we hope for when posting a thread, especially with questions.

More experienced members who like to gab (guilty of the gabbing part but not the experience part) may have multiple sites, occupations, or businesses they are splitting their experience between. They may have limited time or now be familiar with the question.

I will say that during my 11 years back into collecting I've come to realize the biggest thing to increase the value of a coin is Supply/Demand (scarcity and # of collectors of a series), "hype", and coin appeal. Multiple items affecting a coin don't usually affect value and can sometimes diminish the value. ("Laminations" will detract from value for collectors looking for the best example they can afford.)

As for reference material on the 3 cent nickel, check out Allan Gifford's reference book at the Newman Numismatic Portal
Newman Numismatic Portal at Washington University in St. Louis | Comprehensive Research & Reference for U.S. Coinage (wustl.edu)

ps. Folks may argue this point but, technically, your coin is considered a variety and not an error. While there may have been a hubbing "error", clash, or other issue with the die, the coin produced is a variety of the standard coin for the year. (As an example; Cocker Spaniels are a variety of Spaniel, they aren't an error.)

Sorry to cut this short () but I've got things to do and little time to do it, since Milton rolled through.

[occnumis2021]

Nice coin and congrats.

.

a 10 year response. lol - i used to do this kinda thing on other forums.

i made a response, almost hit enter, then seen it was a decade old. DOH

[Petespockets55]

a 10 year response. lol - i used to do this kinda thing on other forums.

i made a response, almost hit enter, then seen it was a decade old. DOH

How embarrassing. LOL Think he'll see it?
Thanks for pointing that out.

I haven't been on since the beginning of the year when my wife started working from home and deleted my saved "Favorites". It's taken me this long to realize I hadn't rescued them all yet. I just clicked on the CONECA forum and this thread came up.

Maybe this thread will be useful to someone in another 10 years.

[eaxtellcoin]

Hey Pete,
Long time, I've been helping, If I can, moderate over here; and havn't been on LCR for a while. I just jump in here and there when life permits..
I agree he has re cut 6's, it is a clash, So the only response someone could have added was if the coin was/was not a doubled die.
Last I checked the club doesn't list re punched dates, He could have tried Mad Die Clashes.com for the clash, then the question is who would we send him/her to for a doubled die on a Longacre Nickel/3 cent piece? I see one listing in Breen for 1866 and that is not it. Like you said - if he/she is still looking, might want to look at your reference above post. That is something we don't see/pick up in change.
Thanks for coming back in!
Eric

[Petespockets55]

Thanks for the welcome back, Eric.

Although I've only been back into collecting since 2013 it's people like yourself and others that have given freely of their time to help others.
My hat is off to you and all others that do these forums and offer so much knowledge and experience.