What is this? A attribution exercise for the NEWER people.

[MintErrors]

I fully expect that if we asked Wexler, he would tell us this cross-references to WDDO-002. I believe that because he mentions "Best Of" Variety next to that listing, and the VV listing mentions it was reported by Wexler.

Only difficulty with the photos here is there were no self-described die markers readily visible. I almost glossed over DDO-002 because I didn't see the die scratch above GOD apparent on the stage A image. But I noticed it had disappeared on the stage B image. Coppercoins shows a die scratch above LIBERTY, but that is cropped out of the photo above, if it is present. It also doesn't help that the Coppercoins coin looks like it suffered a hit to the L of LIBERTY.

One of the things I do not want to do is steer anyone one towards an attribution. Bluntly put, you either acquire the attribution skills, or you will question them. The way I personally like to approach this is no other than looking at a coin under a microscope or loupe. You see things an it is up to you to decipher the information. One of the things that will probably never work flawlessly are all the attribution sites. Each has their own level of criticality and with that new numbering systems are borne, and some acceptance of them is done. I like to use VarietyVista if possible. I know the samples there are CONECA accepted, and probably aren't going to be considered minor.

LASTLY, the photos I provided hope were adequate. I cannot speak for the other sites but I tend to be blessed with having multiple samples in order to get a good feel of what I am seeing. People tend to rely on markers that may or may n8ot be required to make that attribution call. Don't over complicate the call. Ensure you have the right call and the proceed with any additional pups should they be present. present. Again, Wexlers' files are good, but only if they are readily available for use. I shouldn't have to ask for something if these files are public. In this instance it shows which files will work best with the situation at hand. Diversity and logical thought process goes a long way.

[DoubleYou]

Please don't mistake my commentary for criticism of mention of die markers... this coin was relatively easy to attribute all in all based on the main focus to be attributing alone: the doubling. I merely mention the little die markers merely as an easy way to guarantee that I have the attribution correct, and I know it is unrealistic to be calling out these tiny little facets on die varieties to the most minute level. That degree of specificity is obviously an exercise in tedium!

[considine]

Hi MintErrors. I went to Coppercoins and looked at DDO 002 - Hmmmmm- not sure I would have every landed on this one since the L and 3 look so different. However, if one had determined that the L, 9 & 6 were doubled and if you just go by the descriptions and then that would have paired it down to the 002! Again, thank you for the puzzle

[MtW124]

Md on the date and a RPM. That’s my 2cents anyway. Edit: guess I should have read all of page one to note you gave the answer. DDO. Thanks for this lesson

[mustbebob]

LASTLY, the photos I provided hope were adequate. I cannot speak for the other sites but I tend to be blessed with having multiple samples in order to get a good feel of what I am seeing.

One thing you have to consider is that some sites like coppercoins have photos that were taken in the late 90's. Things change with photographic skills and better equipment. I also mentioned in previous posts that attributers are limited by what they have on hand. We tried to upgrade when a better example came along. There are plenty of photos that need replacing. We are fortunate to have multiple file listings to help us, and it take little effort to look at them all.

I know this was supposed to just be an attribution exercise, and it sure brought out a lot of opinions...some of which I do not agree. One of them is this:

One of the things I do not want to do is steer anyone one towards an attribution. Bluntly put, you either acquire the attribution skills, or you will question them.

I am not sure of the context. Was this statement meant for this exercise only? As a community, why would you not want to steer someone to an attribution? I understand about wanting people to learn, but to just deny them is crazy if you know the answer There are thousands of varieties out there. Ever have a problem attributing a 1960D RPM? I have...and I am an attributer. Sometimes, another set of eyes helps immensely. My point is that different people have different skills when it comes to attributing a variety. Some people don't have the time, or equipment to do so as effectively as others. Should they learn? YES! Should you be the person who decides whether or not they have done enough? NO! Should you help a fellow collector occasionally? By all means.

[MintErrors]

One thing you have to consider is that some sites like coppercoins have photos that were taken in the late 90's. Things change with photographic skills and better equipment. I also mentioned in previous posts that attributers are limited by what they have on hand. We tried to upgrade when a better example came along. There are plenty of photos that need replacing. We are fortunate to have multiple file listings to help us, and it take little effort to look at them all.

I know this was supposed to just be an attribution exercise, and it sure brought out a lot of opinions...some of which I do not agree. One of them is this:



I am not sure of the context. Was this statement meant for this exercise only? As a community, why would you not want to steer someone to an attribution? I understand about wanting people to learn, but to just deny them is crazy if you know the answer There are thousands of varieties out there. Ever have a problem attributing a 1960D RPM? I have...and I am an attributer. Sometimes, another set of eyes helps immensely. My point is that different people have different skills when it comes to attributing a variety. Some people don't have the time, or equipment to do so as effectively as others. Should they learn? YES! Should you be the person who decides whether or not they have done enough? NO! Should you help a fellow collector occasionally? By all means.

My point is not to steer in these exercises. It can take away from the attribution if people are lead by the hand. Give them the information and an occasional hint in these exercises. If they ask a valid question, surely answer it truthfully. I don't want to say look here you should see this or what markers stand out. In my opinion, people can attribute coins. Some make it hard. Others have that logical approach and can quickly figure the coin out. Maybe a debrief or how-to should follow after each exercise. Let me ponder on a better format but I really want to present the photos much like they would see in real life.its going to help people communicate and better eventually work as a team. I am going to leave it at that. I am fighting a headache today so my thoughts aren't as robust as normal.

[MintErrors]

Hi MintErrors. I went to Coppercoins and looked at DDO 002 - Hmmmmm- not sure I would have every landed on this one since the L and 3 look so different. However, if one had determined that the L, 9 & 6 were doubled and if you just go by the descriptions and then that would have paired it down to the 002! Again, thank you for the puzzle

As Bob had mentioned, in another thread/reply, self attributers will run into an example that is truly a pain, you may have to reach out to others to ask for advice or, offer advice if being asked. This die was simply different. THIS 1963-D Lincoln Cent DDO-002 is probably one of the most difficult to attribute. Now that this one is out of the way (for now), we can move on to a few others. =)

I'll start another one when I can find the time. I truly appreciate everyone's opinion. When I am doing this, I try to imagine a person picking up a coin, looking at it under a loupe or microscope. What thoughts are running through their minds as they are looking over the coin? What are the right things they are looking for? What are the unnecessary things they are looking for? What reference sites are they using? Are the using more than one reference site?

Over several years I had sent some of these 63-D DDO-002' s off to a third party grading service that I completely attributed. I wrote up as much info as I could on the description line. The first set came back as expected. The second set about a year later came back as " machine doubling, not a DDO." I said what? Its CLEARLY the same die. I packaged all of them - the first set, the second set and all the non certified in the tubes and said. Now who is right?

1963-D DDO-002 raw.jpg

I received the box back, with the ones incorrect, corrected. We ALL are human, including I, and I am proud to be, as I make mistakes like many others. = )

OMG ! I think I just shifted the URS numbers UP on this coin.....LOL, sigh, YES, I do have others, beyond these.