New Variety Error

[BilbosRainbow]

Dear sirs,

I recently purchased several rolls of 2009 & 2009D Lincoln Cents "Formative Year" version, and have discovered several with known variety errors, and also this one that has a very obvious error: there is a second small thumb at the thumb joint that can be clearly seen. However, I do not find this variety among the known varieties. Not-so-great pics of the coin are attached, but this new variety-error can be clearly seen in even these poor photos.

What must I do to have this coin examined, so that it might be recognized and added to the varieties database?

I look forward to your response. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely yours,
William Bailey

[mustbebob]

I can clearly see something at the top of the book. However, I can not determine what it is with the photos. It could be a crack, gouge, or part of another hubbing. Is there any way to get a better photo of the anomaly?

[BilbosRainbow]

Dear Mr. Piazza .. Thank you for your response. I am not referring to the book. Please take another look at the THUMB, where it can be clearly seen that there is a 2nd thumb. That's what I am referring to. I do not find this variety listed. I apologize for the quality of the photos, but I have an old phone that does not take great pics.

[mustbebob]

My apologies. I can see what you are referring to and I appreciate the clarification. Do you have any friends that might be able to get a better photo for you to upload? I just don't quite know what to make of the anomaly. After listing over 100 of these doubled dies in 2009, I can say that I have never seen one quite like this one. I am interested in getting to the bottom of it.

[BilbosRainbow]

Thanks again for your response. I will attempt to have better pics taken of this anomaly on the coin, and will send as soon as I am able - hopefully in the next day or two.

[BilbosRainbow]

I am again attaching picc of the DOUBLE THUMB, which appear very clear from my end. The pics might be losing revolution when being transferred from my phone and downloading them to my computer, and then again to attach them here to send to you. It would be better if I could send them directly from my phone or computer to an email address. So if you cannot clearly see the Double Thumb, is it possible that you could provide me with an email address to which I can send the pics?

[BilbosRainbow]

Mustbebob ... I sent you an email with pics attached.

[mustbebob]

You sent the photos to the wrong person, and he was gracious enough to forward them to me. I would prefer not to be sent anything pertaining to the forum to my personal email address.
As you said, it is very clear for you to see them, but you have the benefit of having the item in hand. I still can not make a determination based on any photos submitted. If you want it to be looked at and possibly attributed as a new doubled die, then please wait a bit until the attributions for Lincoln cents is opened. Our lead attributer will make the call on when that will be and you can then submit your coin to the appropriate attributer.

[BilbosRainbow]

Hello again Bob ... Can you tell me that determines when a particular denomination is opened for attribution submissions? Can you be a little more precise as to what "a bit" means, and when [perhaps in the number of months(?)] attributions might opened up again for Lincoln Cents? From what I can determine, what I have will be a new variety, and I definitely want to submit it for attribution. Thanks again for your time and consideration.

[mustbebob]

The determination of when attributions will be open depends on getting an attributer on board, and when the staff is ready with the master listings and other things we are trying to do to get ready. Please try to remember that doing attributions and/or examinations is not something that just happens. These positions are filled with highly skilled and trained individuals on a voluntary basis. The lead attributer and CONECA board must agree to that person's qualifications. This is not a paid job either, except for the fees that will be charged for each individual attribution. The attributer does it based on his personal schedule. They may have real jobs, families, and other interests that would take precedent over doing an attribution for a few dollars. They have to have a love for this hobby in order to do that job also.

I understand your excitement about maybe having a new variety. I also understand that things are not going as quickly as we would like with starting attributions. I can not give you a time frame because I don't know of one. Our lead attributer will make the call on what denomination starts and when. He has a full time job too, so he has a lot to deal with. Once an attributer is assigned to that denomination, you would contact him/her to schedule your attribution, fees, time frame etc.

I can only ask you to continue to be patient. Also remember that you are not the only one out there who would like their coins looked at. None of this is what you want to hear, but it is what's up to date at this point.

[BilbosRainbow]

Dear Bob ... thank you so much for your prompt response. It certainly gives me a better understanding of the process and of the timeframe involved, especially since there's no full-time person doing the attributions. So this info is very much appreciated! $5 is not much to charge for an attribution, and I certainly would be willing to pay more (or to include a greater cash incentive for the attributor) to get my coin attributed.

Just one other question: Will it be announced on the website (or another place) when attributions are opened again for a given denomination?

Thanks again for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
William ("Bill") Bailey (aka ... BilbosRainbow)

[mustbebob]

It would be announced on the forum Bill. Although I am sure the attributers wouldn't mind a few extra dollars, it just wouldn't be right to bypass someone who has been waiting patiently for longer than you. When I was an attributer, the offer was made to me many times, especially when a new variety was discovered on newly minted coins.
Having your comments in this forum is another way to show when you first reported this coin. If it turns out to be an actual variety, and multiple people report the same variety, your proof is already here. We do appreciate your patience and as I stated, we will take care of you.

[BilbosRainbow]

HI Bob ..Thanks again. But I do have a question: Is CONECA the only organization that officially attributes varieties for the entirety of the numismatic hobby? I wonder why a department for attribution of "new varieties" has not been added to the control of the grading companies or other points of control within the numismatics community. In all honesty, it seems like attribution is something that should be an "ongoing" thing, and not subject to when a company or individual decides it's time for attributions for a certain denomination to open up. It's inefficient and just seems weird to me. But I'll just wait patiently..

[mustbebob]

CONECA is not the only attribution club out there Bill. They are however, the most recognized. Different denominations have different clubs in some cases.
Third party grading services grade and authenticate coins. They don't have time to do attributions. This practice of grading or authenticating a coin takes considerably less time than trying to attribute anything.
You are displaying some of the very same issues as most everyone who has what they think is a new discovery. Why is is so slow? Why do I have to wait? Why don't people have a better handle on this? I want to get credit for this before someone else does.
I tried to explain earlier that this is a hobby. People do this for the love of the hobby. Attributions are not something required to make a paycheck so that you or your family can make a living, and it takes a long time to get proficient enough to do it. If it was so simple, we wouldn't be trying to teach people to self attribute. I don't know what else to tell you. The Internet is a wonderful thing, and if you do a little research, you will find tons of info out there about the same things you are questioning. I will ask again that you be patient. What else is can I say?

[BilbosRainbow]

HI Bob ... and thanks again for responding.

I'm not complaining (or maybe I am, who knows),it's just that I do not understand how a so-called "hobby" -- which has world-wide impact that involves literally billions of dollars in transactions annually -- has not advanced beyond being like a "club" (as you call is) or a hobby where determinations of varieties and errors are just done willy-nilly based on whether or not someone has time to do it.

I'm a very rational and pragmatic person, and it just seems to me that there should be regular ongoing "scientific confirmation of all distinguishing anomalies" (attribution) among coins and currencies that become recognized by the community of tens of thousands of participants and advocates involved worldwide, and who spend billions of dollars annually accumulating collections or just purchasing individual items.

It seems that great organization has gone into the grading, buying, and selling aspects (the auctions, etc.), but not so much into determining the multifarious nuances in varieties and errors upon which ultimate values are heavily weighted, and which definitely makes coins and currencies more valuable to all who participate.

In the meantime, I'll wait patiently ... :-))